[Opensim-dev] Thoughts....

Wed Mar 5 18:33:15 UTC 2008

they would do it or risk being booted from the scenerio.  Being banned for
bringing in illegal items enough times would usually deter people from
continuing the practice.  Thats just one way.  Items for  sale are generally
registered through some web system like SLX or Onrez.  These sites can put
it into categories for you.  It still doesnt take star trek technology to
pull it off.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Todd Adams <ta2025 at gmail.com> wrote:

> You are making it much more complicated than it needs to be.  RPG's do
> this all the time,  You can create a set of agreed on standards for
> registerd item profile.  and then use that profile to allow/disallow items
> into the grid.  Pretty simple.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Michael Wright <michaelwri22 at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > While I agree with Diva general comments...that in the near future you
> > aren't going to see anything that can tell a Star ship enterprise from a
> > horse carriage.
> >
> > I don't actually think it needs to be a case of trusted accounts only. I
> > think there can be a "you can't bring anything with you to this game/region,
> > everything will be provided by the game/region". While these ideas of
> > "global avatars" and "global inventory" are all well and good, they don't
> > fit every case. Sometimes a application might want to be isolated, it might
> > want to give a fixed set of avatars and clothes and inventory out to the
> > users in that application. And only allow those to be used.
> >
> >  I can think of a lot of cases of such applications. And a lot where
> > there should be no avatar or inventory at all; like 3d data visualisation.
> > As has been said repeatedly before, OpenSim is not about one single way fits
> > all. Its about letting people take it and do what they want. Most of my
> > interests are in these other uses.
> >
> > *Diva Canto <diva at metaverseink.com>* wrote:
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > You're expecting too much from technology. What you are saying is 100
> > times harder to do (close to impossible, really) than encrypting things so
> > that only authorized people can see them. There is no way that one can
> > automatically distinguish Star Trek's Enterprise from a horse carriage.
> > Meta-info like name and description is unreliable, because one can name a
> > carriage "Star Trek Enterprise". What you are asking for goes into the field
> > of computer vision, one that is still in its early infancy.
> >
> > Negotiations like that must be done at some other level. Good old human
> > communication, over a simple Access Control List facility, can take you
> > 99.99% of the way. So if you want to enforce the theme of your
> > role-playing virtual world, either close it down so that only your trusted
> > friends can enter, or have it open under a ToS that explains the rules of
> > the game and the consequences of breaking them ("you must be 18 years old or
> > older" etc :-). Note that you will have the freedom to write a ToS that is
> > very specific to your role-playing world, not the generic one that LL has.
> > You can make it as restrictive as you want. Enforcing it is another issue
> > altogether... So if you really really don't want to be bothered by
> > mood-breaking off topic avatars, ever, close things down, make your world
> > accessible only to the people you trust.
> >
> > OpenSim is trying to figure out how to support surfing of avatars among
> > grids, because that is something that lots of people want for conducting
> > real business and outreach in virtual worlds; but, like on the web, that
> > kind of openness stops in sites/grids that have an Access Control in place.
> > The option of closing things down to authorized accounts is not only a
> > well-practiced concept on the internet, but one that OpenSim supports at the
> > very core.
> >
> > I must say, though, that I don't see any connection between the concrete
> > thing that you said and education, except, perhaps, the Police Academy :-)
> >
> > On a technical note, the Inventory is harmless. All assets in Inventory
> > are sitting nicely on some hard disk, doing absolutely nothing. It's only
> > when people attach them or rez them that they may become a problem -- these
> > actions move the objects from the disk where they are sitting to the memory
> > of the server, where everyone can see them and where they can run scripts,
> > if allowed.
> >
> > Diva / Crista
> >
> > Todd Adams wrote:
> >
> > @ Cristina
> >
> > Along the lines of permissions between grids...
> >
> > There are people who are going to want to set up specialty grids for
> > role-play.  If they are creating a fantasy medieval world, they sure do not
> > want people bringing in the latest CCC spaceship or BFG 2000 particle beam
> > weapon into that world.  Maybe it should just be flagged so its grayed out
> > in inventory until arriving at a world the item is compatible with.  On the
> > flipside, people role-playing a Star Trek universe are not going to
> > appreciate newcomers arriving with a +6 Vorpal Broadsword...
> >
> > Beyond allowing/disallowing,  certain inventory items could be embargoed
> > or taxed in the local currency.  A flexible enough system would be an
> > excellent learning tool for college and high school economic classes.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:04 AM, dr scofield <DrScofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Cristina Videira Lopes wrote:
> > >
> > >  Burnman,
> > >
> > > Technically your comments are off, as Michael already pointed out.
> > > They are so off that I think they are directed at the Open Sourced LL
> > > viewer,  i.e. at the ability for clients to get complete information
> > > about the objects inworld to the point of being able to store them locally
> > > and to replicate them. Note that this has nothing to do with OpenSim,
> > > strictly speaking. But let me comment on that.
> > >
> > >  [...]
> > >
> > > While the solution is technically feasible, what sense would it make
> > > to go around the world seeing garbage everywhere?? Plus anyone who wanted to
> > > see the decrypted objects would have to use an extended version of the LL
> > > viewer, one that does decryption. Not to mention the added performance
> > > overhead. … Again, I doubt massive adoption, but this could definitely be
> > > done, technically.
> > >
> > > completely agree with that. the point of a virtual world is that you
> > > *can see the virtual world* --- again, this is the core fallacy of DRM: you
> > > want keep your content a secret but at the same you need to give your
> > > customers access to the content otherwise why would they pay for it???
> > >
> > > let face facts (and i'm repeating arguments others and i have made, i
> > > know):
> > >
> > >    - clients will have to be told about the shape and texture of
> > >    virtual world objects --- *otherwise they won't be able to render it*
> > >    - scripts can be kept on server, clients don't get access to
> > >    them (unless you own the object or share it)
> > >    - in a future interconnected grid of grid (let's call that a
> > >    virtual universe), you could add "permissions" that let you specify to which
> > >    grids an object may be exported, that way you could say, i trust the LL
> > >    grid, i don't trust dr scofield's grid because, oh, i don't know, she
> > >    doesn't agree with me on DRM and VW ;-)
> > >
> > > that last approach will have consequences for your customers though:
> > > they won't be able to take the objects they bought from you with them to dr
> > > scofield's grid. some won't care, some won't like it --- and probably not be
> > > return customers. but that then is something you as a content provider have
> > > to come to terms with.
> > >
> > >     cheers,
> > >     dr scofield
> > >
> > > --
> > > dr dirk husemann, mathmatics and computer science, ibm zurich research lab
> > > SL: dr scofield ---- drscofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net ---- http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/
> > >
> > > RL: hud at zurich.ibm.com - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/ <http://www.zurich.ibm.com/%7Ehud/>
> > >
> > >
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