[Opensim-dev] Thoughts....

Wed Mar 5 18:30:22 UTC 2008

You are making it much more complicated than it needs to be.  RPG's do this
all the time,  You can create a set of agreed on standards for registerd
item profile.  and then use that profile to allow/disallow items into the
grid.  Pretty simple.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Michael Wright <michaelwri22 at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> While I agree with Diva general comments...that in the near future you
> aren't going to see anything that can tell a Star ship enterprise from a
> horse carriage.
>
> I don't actually think it needs to be a case of trusted accounts only. I
> think there can be a "you can't bring anything with you to this game/region,
> everything will be provided by the game/region". While these ideas of
> "global avatars" and "global inventory" are all well and good, they don't
> fit every case. Sometimes a application might want to be isolated, it might
> want to give a fixed set of avatars and clothes and inventory out to the
> users in that application. And only allow those to be used.
>
>  I can think of a lot of cases of such applications. And a lot where there
> should be no avatar or inventory at all; like 3d data visualisation. As has
> been said repeatedly before, OpenSim is not about one single way fits all.
> Its about letting people take it and do what they want. Most of my interests
> are in these other uses.
>
> *Diva Canto <diva at metaverseink.com>* wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
> You're expecting too much from technology. What you are saying is 100
> times harder to do (close to impossible, really) than encrypting things so
> that only authorized people can see them. There is no way that one can
> automatically distinguish Star Trek's Enterprise from a horse carriage.
> Meta-info like name and description is unreliable, because one can name a
> carriage "Star Trek Enterprise". What you are asking for goes into the field
> of computer vision, one that is still in its early infancy.
>
> Negotiations like that must be done at some other level. Good old human
> communication, over a simple Access Control List facility, can take you
> 99.99% of the way. So if you want to enforce the theme of your
> role-playing virtual world, either close it down so that only your trusted
> friends can enter, or have it open under a ToS that explains the rules of
> the game and the consequences of breaking them ("you must be 18 years old or
> older" etc :-). Note that you will have the freedom to write a ToS that is
> very specific to your role-playing world, not the generic one that LL has.
> You can make it as restrictive as you want. Enforcing it is another issue
> altogether... So if you really really don't want to be bothered by
> mood-breaking off topic avatars, ever, close things down, make your world
> accessible only to the people you trust.
>
> OpenSim is trying to figure out how to support surfing of avatars among
> grids, because that is something that lots of people want for conducting
> real business and outreach in virtual worlds; but, like on the web, that
> kind of openness stops in sites/grids that have an Access Control in place.
> The option of closing things down to authorized accounts is not only a
> well-practiced concept on the internet, but one that OpenSim supports at the
> very core.
>
> I must say, though, that I don't see any connection between the concrete
> thing that you said and education, except, perhaps, the Police Academy :-)
>
> On a technical note, the Inventory is harmless. All assets in Inventory
> are sitting nicely on some hard disk, doing absolutely nothing. It's only
> when people attach them or rez them that they may become a problem -- these
> actions move the objects from the disk where they are sitting to the memory
> of the server, where everyone can see them and where they can run scripts,
> if allowed.
>
> Diva / Crista
>
> Todd Adams wrote:
>
> @ Cristina
>
> Along the lines of permissions between grids...
>
> There are people who are going to want to set up specialty grids for
> role-play.  If they are creating a fantasy medieval world, they sure do not
> want people bringing in the latest CCC spaceship or BFG 2000 particle beam
> weapon into that world.  Maybe it should just be flagged so its grayed out
> in inventory until arriving at a world the item is compatible with.  On the
> flipside, people role-playing a Star Trek universe are not going to
> appreciate newcomers arriving with a +6 Vorpal Broadsword...
>
> Beyond allowing/disallowing,  certain inventory items could be embargoed
> or taxed in the local currency.  A flexible enough system would be an
> excellent learning tool for college and high school economic classes.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:04 AM, dr scofield <DrScofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Cristina Videira Lopes wrote:
> >
> >  Burnman,
> >
> > Technically your comments are off, as Michael already pointed out. They
> > are so off that I think they are directed at the Open Sourced LL viewer,
> > i.e. at the ability for clients to get complete information about the
> > objects inworld to the point of being able to store them locally and to
> > replicate them. Note that this has nothing to do with OpenSim, strictly
> > speaking. But let me comment on that.
> >
> >  [...]
> >
> > While the solution is technically feasible, what sense would it make to
> > go around the world seeing garbage everywhere?? Plus anyone who wanted to
> > see the decrypted objects would have to use an extended version of the LL
> > viewer, one that does decryption. Not to mention the added performance
> > overhead. … Again, I doubt massive adoption, but this could definitely be
> > done, technically.
> >
> > completely agree with that. the point of a virtual world is that you
> > *can see the virtual world* --- again, this is the core fallacy of DRM: you
> > want keep your content a secret but at the same you need to give your
> > customers access to the content otherwise why would they pay for it???
> >
> > let face facts (and i'm repeating arguments others and i have made, i
> > know):
> >
> >    - clients will have to be told about the shape and texture of
> >    virtual world objects --- *otherwise they won't be able to render it*
> >    - scripts can be kept on server, clients don't get access to them
> >    (unless you own the object or share it)
> >    - in a future interconnected grid of grid (let's call that a
> >    virtual universe), you could add "permissions" that let you specify to which
> >    grids an object may be exported, that way you could say, i trust the LL
> >    grid, i don't trust dr scofield's grid because, oh, i don't know, she
> >    doesn't agree with me on DRM and VW ;-)
> >
> > that last approach will have consequences for your customers though:
> > they won't be able to take the objects they bought from you with them to dr
> > scofield's grid. some won't care, some won't like it --- and probably not be
> > return customers. but that then is something you as a content provider have
> > to come to terms with.
> >
> >     cheers,
> >     dr scofield
> >
> > --
> > dr dirk husemann, mathmatics and computer science, ibm zurich research lab
> > SL: dr scofield ---- drscofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net ---- http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/
> > RL: hud at zurich.ibm.com - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/ <http://www.zurich.ibm.com/%7Ehud/>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> >
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