[Opensim-dev] future rexviewer merger
Fish Kungfu
fish.kungfu at gmail.com
Sat Dec 6 20:51:20 UTC 2008
ditto for me.... +1 to Melanie
On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Ideia Boa <ideiaboa at gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 to Melanie
>
> Melanie wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am not opposed to Rex technology. I'm not opposed to have it in
> OpenSim.
> I'm also not opposed to the people who I know (like you).
>
> What I am opposed to is the strategy of doing Windows-only
> development behind closed doors, without community (OpenSim dev)
> feedback, then presenting huge patches that are so brittle that they
> need to be applied without scrutiny or go stale.
>
> I would welcome Rex involvement if the Rex developers would join us
> in -dev, discuss things, and submit small patches that we can
> analyze and become familiar with, and modify so they don't conflict
> with the directions where OpenSim core wants to go.
>
> Fromn what I gather, Rex is intent on pushing both the login service
> and the viewer onto OpenSim. Including going to the point of
> breaking SL viewer compatibility. I am totally opposed to this. I
> would never endorse a single LL-Code based viewer as _the_ viewer,
> to the exclusion of any other, unless it's fully BSD licensed, e.g.
> developed from scratch.
>
> Also, I see anumber of abuse scenarios possible with the
> login/avatar service (commercial abuse), which is why I personally
> favor a different model. Specifically, to keep the avatar appearance
> data on the client and not on any server at all.
>
> That is what I can write out right now, there is a diffuse feeling
> of opposition in me, that I have yet to fathom.
>
> If you take it in small steps, I will be with you. Megapatches would
> be an issue for me.
>
> Melanie
>
>
> Ryan McDougall wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>
>
> In my opinion, nothing. Nothing, that is, that we could not get
> without ReX involvement, and better.
>
> I would like to see OpenSim do an OpenSim solution to the mesh and
> asset/inventory system. I don't feel comfortable with the ReX
> solution, and even less comfortable with the parts of it they may
> hold close to the chest and spring on us later. I expect some
> unpalatable bits there. I would rather see us grow to that level in
> a true collaborative Open Source, Free environment, without being
> under the control of a single corporation.
>
>
> Which corporation is that? Do you know anything about legal or funding
> structure of reX? Do you know any of us personally?
>
> Its a lot to presume with little in the way of fact.
>
> How about instead of playing games you just ask me and I'll tell you.
> If I had the faintest idea what your concern is I'd pre-emptively tell
> you...
>
>
>
> Melanie
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Diva Canto wrote:
>
>
> As Rex's extensions move closer to opensim (I'm in the group of people
> who can't wait to see meshes and better graphics!), it will be good to
> know more of the details of Rex. I'm not sure I understand completely
> the use of "avatar" here, as we know that opensim uses it to denote a
> pixelated carcass, that's neither a user nor an agent. And in Rex the
> "avatar system" seems like it's more of a user storage/asset system.
> Part of the user's storage/assets includes the pixelated carcass for
> opensim-based worlds that care about that; but it includes all other
> assets owned by the user.
>
> It would be interesting to compare existing efforts in opensim such as
> the Hypergrid and the distributed asset server with Rex's avatar system.
> Is it possible that
> Hypergrid+DAS >= Rex's Avatar System ?
> What else does the avatar system bring to the table?
>
> Crista
>
> Ryan McDougall wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for your addition to the discussion James, however I think
> Paul may have misunderstood reX architecture when made a private
> discussion public without consent.
>
> The reX avatar and authentication servers replace the User server and
> split it into Avatar storage for reX's own avatar system, and pure
> authentication of identity (the latter a bit like OpenID). The idea is
> to enable avatar portability: the ability to take the same
> meticulously created reX avatar from one grid to another.
>
> Afaik there is no analogue for stock OpenSim, and thus its difficult
> to merge until the reX team is better integrated with OpenSim.
>
> Moreover I see room for improvement there, and have some ideas to
> change it further. It would be better for all parties if we did our
> prototyping first, and then worry about arguing who has the better
> concept or code later and the discussion is on objective ground.
>
> Cheers,
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, James Stallings II<james.stallings at gmail.com> <james.stallings at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> LOL an ESPECIALLY good idea given they are the originators of the project
> and maintainers of the core offering :D
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Jani Pirkola <jpirkola at gmail.com> <jpirkola at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
> Good idea to involve Opensim-dev, since they might have better ideas. I
> suppose Adam Frisby has already thought how or if to integrate avatar
> storage to Opensim.
>
> One reason for avatar appearance (or agent domain) handling being at the
> same place with the opensim is because in SL this was so. When we move
> towards free 3D Internet (free as libre), then we need to be able to take
> our avatar with us from grid to grid. This means that a grid must accept
> foreign agent domains - and eventually someone would like to run just the
> avatar service.
>
> Best regards,
> Jani
>
> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <metaphorz at gmail.com> <metaphorz at gmail.com>
>
> I am resending this since i think I sent a message from the wrong
> email account...
>
> ..........
>
> Jani
> I confess to not knowing the details of the rex viewer source, so please
> take
> my comments in that light. However, to me, it would seem more logical to
> evolve the already existing UGAIM+R services of OpenSim rather than
> inventing a separate way of handling region and user services. I feel
> that
> we may need more discussion with the opensim developers (which is
> why I am cc'ing them). If I am missing something in the logic of your
> revised
> Rex viewer implementation strategy, please let me know, and thank your
> team again for its excellent viewer capabilities.
> In summary, if there is something about the way that opensim handles
> avatars or authentication, then suggest fixes to this via opensim-dev.
> Yes?
> If the DB schema(s) need to change, then suggest changes or add new
> tables.
> -paul
>
> Jani Pirkola wrote:
>
>
>
> Exactly, that is what we will do. However some of the services need to
> be able to run separately from the region or opensim server. The best
> example of this is the avatar storage and user authentication, which we feel
> needs to be its own entity.
>
> Jani
>
> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu<mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu> <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>>
>
> Presumably, the "services" aspect can be worked out as a region
> module
> for opensim? Either that, or the rex team would work with the
> opensim
> team on the opensim trunk to extend its service capabilities to be
> more
> consistent with rexviewer. That way, developers or users are free
> to update or
> re-build opensim whenever it suits them, and rexviewer would still
> function.
> -p
>
>
> Antti Ilomäki wrote:
>
> Actually that's not exactly the case, viewer modifications are
> important to us, but the avatar portability service (and
> participating
> in world server development as well) is another central feature
> we
> have. Our system currently allows full avatar portability
> between
> different worlds and even the inventory works, at least to an
> extent.
>
> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu
> <mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu> <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>>:
>
> I could be wrong, but i thought the point was to make Rex
> purely
> a visual client (viewer) and to let OpenSim handle the
> services?
> -paul
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Dr. Paul A. Fishwick E-Mail: fishwick at cise.ufl.edu
> <mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu> <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>
> Dept. of Computer & Info Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
> Science and Engineering WWW:
> http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
> <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick> <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
> University of Florida (PGP Key available at above WWW
> address)
> P. O. Box 116120
> 332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120
>
>
>
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> --
> Best regards,
> Ideia Boa
> OpenSimPT
>
> Join the new 3D world revolution : http://www.opensimpt.com/
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