[Opensim-dev] future rexviewer merger
Frisby, Adam
adam at deepthink.com.au
Sat Dec 6 03:25:10 UTC 2008
> Fromn what I gather, Rex is intent on pushing both the login service
> and the viewer onto OpenSim. Including going to the point of
> breaking SL viewer compatibility. I am totally opposed to this. I
> would never endorse a single LL-Code based viewer as _the_ viewer,
> to the exclusion of any other, unless it's fully BSD licensed, e.g.
> developed from scratch.
This actually isn't true.
The login service is wholly self-contained in the modular rex DLL, there's no dependency on modifying OpenSim at all. (Yes, this required a lot of hackery initially to work, but it does.), so there's no real reason to push it back to OpenSim since there's no core changes.
Regards,
Adam
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-
> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Melanie
> Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 5:47 PM
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] future rexviewer merger
>
> Hi,
>
> I am not opposed to Rex technology. I'm not opposed to have it in
> OpenSim.
> I'm also not opposed to the people who I know (like you).
>
> What I am opposed to is the strategy of doing Windows-only
> development behind closed doors, without community (OpenSim dev)
> feedback, then presenting huge patches that are so brittle that they
> need to be applied without scrutiny or go stale.
>
> I would welcome Rex involvement if the Rex developers would join us
> in -dev, discuss things, and submit small patches that we can
> analyze and become familiar with, and modify so they don't conflict
> with the directions where OpenSim core wants to go.
>
> Fromn what I gather, Rex is intent on pushing both the login service
> and the viewer onto OpenSim. Including going to the point of
> breaking SL viewer compatibility. I am totally opposed to this. I
> would never endorse a single LL-Code based viewer as _the_ viewer,
> to the exclusion of any other, unless it's fully BSD licensed, e.g.
> developed from scratch.
>
> Also, I see anumber of abuse scenarios possible with the
> login/avatar service (commercial abuse), which is why I personally
> favor a different model. Specifically, to keep the avatar appearance
> data on the client and not on any server at all.
>
> That is what I can write out right now, there is a diffuse feeling
> of opposition in me, that I have yet to fathom.
>
> If you take it in small steps, I will be with you. Megapatches would
> be an issue for me.
>
> Melanie
>
>
> Ryan McDougall wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
> >> In my opinion, nothing. Nothing, that is, that we could not get
> >> without ReX involvement, and better.
> >>
> >> I would like to see OpenSim do an OpenSim solution to the mesh and
> >> asset/inventory system. I don't feel comfortable with the ReX
> >> solution, and even less comfortable with the parts of it they may
> >> hold close to the chest and spring on us later. I expect some
> >> unpalatable bits there. I would rather see us grow to that level in
> >> a true collaborative Open Source, Free environment, without being
> >> under the control of a single corporation.
> >
> > Which corporation is that? Do you know anything about legal or
> funding
> > structure of reX? Do you know any of us personally?
> >
> > Its a lot to presume with little in the way of fact.
> >
> > How about instead of playing games you just ask me and I'll tell you.
> > If I had the faintest idea what your concern is I'd pre-emptively
> tell
> > you...
> >
> >> Melanie
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >>
> >> Diva Canto wrote:
> >>> As Rex's extensions move closer to opensim (I'm in the group of
> people
> >>> who can't wait to see meshes and better graphics!), it will be good
> to
> >>> know more of the details of Rex. I'm not sure I understand
> completely
> >>> the use of "avatar" here, as we know that opensim uses it to denote
> a
> >>> pixelated carcass, that's neither a user nor an agent. And in Rex
> the
> >>> "avatar system" seems like it's more of a user storage/asset
> system.
> >>> Part of the user's storage/assets includes the pixelated carcass
> for
> >>> opensim-based worlds that care about that; but it includes all
> other
> >>> assets owned by the user.
> >>>
> >>> It would be interesting to compare existing efforts in opensim such
> as
> >>> the Hypergrid and the distributed asset server with Rex's avatar
> system.
> >>> Is it possible that
> >>> Hypergrid+DAS >= Rex's Avatar System ?
> >>> What else does the avatar system bring to the table?
> >>>
> >>> Crista
> >>>
> >>> Ryan McDougall wrote:
> >>>> Thank you for your addition to the discussion James, however I
> think
> >>>> Paul may have misunderstood reX architecture when made a private
> >>>> discussion public without consent.
> >>>>
> >>>> The reX avatar and authentication servers replace the User server
> and
> >>>> split it into Avatar storage for reX's own avatar system, and pure
> >>>> authentication of identity (the latter a bit like OpenID). The
> idea is
> >>>> to enable avatar portability: the ability to take the same
> >>>> meticulously created reX avatar from one grid to another.
> >>>>
> >>>> Afaik there is no analogue for stock OpenSim, and thus its
> difficult
> >>>> to merge until the reX team is better integrated with OpenSim.
> >>>>
> >>>> Moreover I see room for improvement there, and have some ideas to
> >>>> change it further. It would be better for all parties if we did
> our
> >>>> prototyping first, and then worry about arguing who has the better
> >>>> concept or code later and the discussion is on objective ground.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, James Stallings II
> >>>> <james.stallings at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> LOL an ESPECIALLY good idea given they are the originators of the
> project
> >>>>> and maintainers of the core offering :D
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>> James
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Jani Pirkola
> <jpirkola at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Paul,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Good idea to involve Opensim-dev, since they might have better
> ideas. I
> >>>>>> suppose Adam Frisby has already thought how or if to integrate
> avatar
> >>>>>> storage to Opensim.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One reason for avatar appearance (or agent domain) handling
> being at the
> >>>>>> same place with the opensim is because in SL this was so. When
> we move
> >>>>>> towards free 3D Internet (free as libre), then we need to be
> able to take
> >>>>>> our avatar with us from grid to grid. This means that a grid
> must accept
> >>>>>> foreign agent domains - and eventually someone would like to run
> just the
> >>>>>> avatar service.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>> Jani
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <metaphorz at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am resending this since i think I sent a message from the
> wrong
> >>>>>>> email account...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ..........
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jani
> >>>>>>> I confess to not knowing the details of the rex viewer source,
> so please
> >>>>>>> take
> >>>>>>> my comments in that light. However, to me, it would seem more
> logical to
> >>>>>>> evolve the already existing UGAIM+R services of OpenSim rather
> than
> >>>>>>> inventing a separate way of handling region and user services.
> I feel
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> we may need more discussion with the opensim developers (which
> is
> >>>>>>> why I am cc'ing them). If I am missing something in the logic
> of your
> >>>>>>> revised
> >>>>>>> Rex viewer implementation strategy, please let me know, and
> thank your
> >>>>>>> team again for its excellent viewer capabilities.
> >>>>>>> In summary, if there is something about the way that opensim
> handles
> >>>>>>> avatars or authentication, then suggest fixes to this via
> opensim-dev.
> >>>>>>> Yes?
> >>>>>>> If the DB schema(s) need to change, then suggest changes or add
> new
> >>>>>>> tables.
> >>>>>>> -paul
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jani Pirkola wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Exactly, that is what we will do. However some of the services
> need to
> >>>>>>>> be able to run separately from the region or opensim server.
> The best
> >>>>>>>> example of this is the avatar storage and user authentication,
> which we feel
> >>>>>>>> needs to be its own entity.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jani
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Presumably, the "services" aspect can be worked out as a
> region
> >>>>>>>> module
> >>>>>>>> for opensim? Either that, or the rex team would work with
> the
> >>>>>>>> opensim
> >>>>>>>> team on the opensim trunk to extend its service
> capabilities to be
> >>>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>> consistent with rexviewer. That way, developers or users
> are free
> >>>>>>>> to update or
> >>>>>>>> re-build opensim whenever it suits them, and rexviewer
> would still
> >>>>>>>> function.
> >>>>>>>> -p
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Antti Ilomäki wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Actually that's not exactly the case, viewer
> modifications are
> >>>>>>>> important to us, but the avatar portability service
> (and
> >>>>>>>> participating
> >>>>>>>> in world server development as well) is another
> central feature
> >>>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>> have. Our system currently allows full avatar
> portability
> >>>>>>>> between
> >>>>>>>> different worlds and even the inventory works, at
> least to an
> >>>>>>>> extent.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I could be wrong, but i thought the point was to
> make Rex
> >>>>>>>> purely
> >>>>>>>> a visual client (viewer) and to let OpenSim handle
> the
> >>>>>>>> services?
> >>>>>>>> -paul
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -- Dr. Paul A. Fishwick E-Mail:
> fishwick at cise.ufl.edu
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>
> >>>>>>>> Dept. of Computer & Info Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
> >>>>>>>> Science and Engineering WWW:
> >>>>>>>> http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
> >>>>>>>> <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
> >>>>>>>> University of Florida (PGP Key available at above
> WWW
> >>>>>>>> address)
> >>>>>>>> P. O. Box 116120
> >>>>>>>> 332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> ===================================
> >>>>> The wind
> >>>>> scours the earth for prayers
> >>>>> The night obscures them
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://osgrid.org
> >>>>> http://del.icio.us/SPQR
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/jstallings2
> >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
More information about the Opensim-dev
mailing list