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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Snowcrash,<br>
<br>
You came here to ask for feedback on your tool. You got what you
asked for. <br>
<br>
FYI, the next release of the diva distro will include a TOS module
that people can customize with their own TOS text. Depending on
how your tool develops, I may add code to the diva distro to block
your tool, or, at least, make it impractical.<br>
<br>
Having said that, I appreciate the heads up. Good luck.<br>
<br>
Diva<br>
<br>
On 11/18/2012 1:24 AM, Snowcrash Short wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMvcWdgf53KBs03d3g6_24aY3oFCGA5fQ2yq7iaECcr+h=mtSg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Melanie
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" target="_blank">melanie@t-data.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Even a "grid transfer" flag would not mean that this software
would<br>
honor it if modified by a third party. As an open source
release<br>
"MyInventory" should be named "MyCopybot".</blockquote>
<div>Any protection which relies on obscurity is just an
illusion, wanting MyInventory to be closed source denies
legitimate users access to the benefits of an opensource tool
for legitimate use, which the badguys already have today.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On top of
that, the<br>
inventories don't belong to the users. They belong to the
creators<br>
of the items and to the grids where they were uploaded and are
stored.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's where you and I see things very differently. The IP
rights of inventory content as a general rule belongs to the
content creators, the use rights belongs to the end user. The
grids and regions really have no standing, they serve the same
role as website providers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>in the ideal world, grids and regions would not have a
permanent asset store, nor a permanent inventory store. These
are brought along by the user when the user logs into the grid
and removed when the user logs out again. This way the
metaverse would better match the mental model of most users
and incidentally remove one issue of scalability, although I
admit it is a minor issue.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But I digress, this thread - to me - isn't about what
overall architecture to consider, but about what reasonable
changes the Open Simulator community would like to have in a
tool where one of the features mimics what I believe the TPV
"Stored Inventory" has today. Admittedly the tool offers an
extended download mechanism for grids where the end users
rights has not been limited by a TOS, hence my initial
request, so MyInventory can help the user from violating the
TOS.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am a bit saddend by the vitriol in some of the replies I
have received, they do not bode well for the future
co-operation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>best regards</div>
<div>Snowcrash</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Melanie<br>
<div>
<div><br>
On 18/11/2012 00:47, Teravus Ovares wrote:<br>
> "I hope this puts you somewhat at ease"<br>
><br>
> This puts nobody at ease if the source code is going
to be released.<br>
> In fact, I'm just going to call out here that you
still have not argued a<br>
> legitimate use case for it, and by legitimate... I
mean something that<br>
> doesn't violate a terms of service and/or breach of
contract and 'normal<br>
> course of business' expectations. Since there's no
legitimate use at this<br>
> time, your tool can only be used to do illegal stuff
and that is illegal in<br>
> most countries. Just making my position clear.
If you want a<br>
> legitimate use, then 'make one' by implementing BSD
licensed code changes<br>
> in OpenSimulator to allow content creators to mark
their content as 'grid<br>
> transfer'.. beyond that, I cannot approve of this
action.<br>
><br>
> That is all<br>
><br>
> Teravus<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Snowcrash Short<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:snowcrash.short@gmail.com" target="_blank">snowcrash.short@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> HI<br>
>><br>
>> Whether your effort is worth while is a question
only you can answer.<br>
>><br>
>> What I can tell you is that my software will not
change anything to the<br>
>> assets on your server, it won't remove any assets
or copy any assets,<br>
>> except those that are in the users inventory, and
if you tell me the domain<br>
>> name you are using, I will implement the same
protection against theft as<br>
>> is required for third party viewers on Linden
Labs grids.<br>
>><br>
>> I hope this puts you somewhat at ease.<br>
>><br>
>> Best regards<br>
>> Snowcrash.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 2:11 PM, InuYasha Meiji
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:inuyasha.meiji@gmail.com" target="_blank">inuyasha.meiji@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> I am sorry, I am a bit prone to mood swings,
on account of being both, an<br>
>>> insulin dependent diabetic and after an 8
year wait on dialysis, I am on<br>
>>> kidney transplant immune suppressants. This
whole conversation is starting<br>
>>> to depress the %^&* out of me, wondering
if all of this is worth my time<br>
>>> and money anymore. When I discovered
Opensim, I thought, finally I can<br>
>>> have enough land to build something
impressive. I once built the most<br>
>>> important building of Shuri called the Seiden
of Shuri in a sim called<br>
>>> Butler in Secondlife. Now I could build the
entire castle on my own grid,<br>
>>> and choose a time period and scale. With
enough research to build a<br>
>>> historically accurate Castle during its
golden era.. I have researched<br>
>>> more then 5 years on this project, only to
be sure I had enough detail and<br>
>>> knowledge of the culture to create what was
around in the late 16th early<br>
>>> 17th century.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I have been saving money by not eating as
well, I lost 32 pounds in<br>
>>> three months. It should be another year, or
year and a half, to get a<br>
>>> monster of a server to run it on. As I save
up, prices cme down to built<br>
>>> a twin AMD 3+ Bulldozers each with 16 cores
to run it on.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This conversation has me thinking only about
people stealing my assets,<br>
>>> makeing me think, why bother. To me the
realease of Snowcrashe's<br>
>>> software makes it easy for anyone to just
freely grab all my work, I give<br>
>>> on my grid, for use on my grid, and drag it
off someplace, even SL to<br>
>>> resell and use no matter how I try to protect
myself and my work. Also<br>
>>> from what he said other "black hatters" can
do it ANYWAYS. To me this<br>
>>> means hours of hand texturing, the hours I
spent building, till my one good<br>
>>> eye gives me such a headache I pop tylonol
like candy.<br>
>>><br>
>>> IT takes me more time and effort to do as
much as some with only one<br>
>>> working eye. I want it to stay here on my
grid unless I choose to sell it<br>
>>> in another grid like Secondlife. I also
don't want my grid a 16th-17th<br>
>>> century grid becoming filled with airplanes
and cars and other modern<br>
>>> items. Can someone tell me now, why should I
even put more work into<br>
>>> creating this world and taking any more of my
life creating anything<br>
>>> anymore??<br>
>>><br>
>>> InuYasha.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 11/17/2012 2:47 AM, Snowcrash Short wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:50 PM, What
Virtual World - Martin Forster <<br>
</div>
</div>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:blackberry@forsterinternet.nl" target="_blank">blackberry@forsterinternet.nl</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:blackberry@"
target="_blank">blackberry@</a>**<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://forsterinternet.nl" target="_blank">forsterinternet.nl</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:blackberry@forsterinternet.nl" target="_blank">blackberry@forsterinternet.nl</a>>>><br>
<div>
<div>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hello Snowcrash,<br>
>>>> I think it is good having software to
backup your items but....<br>
>>>> As melanie sayed before, the ability
to backup "Any" item would<br>
>>>> not be a good idea as your software
will be banned from major<br>
>>>> grids due to this.<br>
>>>> To be honest we would also blacklist
your software if we think it<br>
>>>> can be at harm for the creators in
our grid.<br>
>>>> Please think if this:<br>
>>>> Most people can not make a "copybot
vieuwer" as the things people<br>
>>>> need for that are available but also
complicated to build if you<br>
>>>> dont have any experiance.<br>
>>>> If your software is easy to compile
without any knowledge it will<br>
>>>> be a base for people to create these
"copybot's" with.<br>
>>>> This will not be the best
advertisment for your software in my<br>
>>>> believe.<br>
>>>> I think it will be best not to make
it an opensource project ..<br>
>>>> but just distribute only in binary
form.<br>
>>>> Also making it TPV compliant will be
even better.<br>
>>>> If it protects content from beeing
ilegaly copied on "any grid" we<br>
>>>> will support it for sure.<br>
>>>> Just my two cents ...<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The backup feature, which really is only
a small part of the overall<br>
>>>> featureset, currently operates in one of
two modes, TPV compliant mode and<br>
>>>> unrestricted mode. MyInventory forces the
download component to be TPV<br>
>>>> compatible when connecting to any known
Linden Labs grid (and similar<br>
>>>> protection is underway for other grids),
My original mail had two topics.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 1) Which grids would like to have the
same hardcoded protection level<br>
>>>> against unrestricted download as Linden
Labs<br>
>>>> 2) This tool may - if it becomes popular
- create a lot of duplicate<br>
>>>> assets, therefore I came up with a
suggestion on how to alleviate this<br>
>>>> problem.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Going closed source is simply "security
by obscurity" under a different<br>
>>>> name, the "black hatters" already have
the ability to take what they want,<br>
>>>> claiming that content creators assets are
safe is simply not true, and that<br>
>>>> fact holds for Linden Labs grids as well.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Even if you decide to block MyInventory,
the blocking tools are so<br>
>>>> inadequate in these days of fast
recycling DHCP servers, that all you will<br>
>>>> manage to do is to block out legitimate
users, the "black hatters" can<br>
>>>> easily get around these limitations. And
is that really what you want?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best regards,<br>
>>>> Martin Forster<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
</div>
</div>
>>>> *From:* Snowcrash Short <mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:snowcrash.short@gmail."
target="_blank">snowcrash.short@gmail.</a>**com<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:snowcrash.short@gmail.com" target="_blank">snowcrash.short@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> *To:* <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
>>>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:opensim-users@lists." target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.</a>**<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://berlios.de"
target="_blank">berlios.de</a><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div>
<div>>>>> ><br>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 15,
2012 10:44 AM<br>
>>>> *Subject:* [Opensim-users]
Announcement of inventory tool<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> (MyInventory), mostly of interest
to grid operators/grid nauts<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hi<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I've been working on a client
side tool for decentralizing<br>
>>>> user inventories, which I will
release as an open source tool<br>
>>>> in two weeks, some of the
features may be relevant to grid<br>
>>>> operators.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The basic premise of the tool is
that the inventory and the<br>
>>>> backing assets of the inventory
items really should be<br>
>>>> controlled by the user. The tool
is born out of a frustration<br>
>>>> of having visited a number of
grids. Each visit to a new grid<br>
>>>> presents me with an empty
inventory, and I can then spend time<br>
>>>> searching for suitable item,
clothing, attachments and<br>
>>>> other accessories.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> For this purpose I have created a
tool which will allow me to<br>
>>>> backup my inventory to a local
cache and then upload the<br>
>>>> contents to another grid.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> If my tool becomes popular, both
the upload and download<br>
>>>> mechanisms may have some impact
on the grid-operators, hence<br>
>>>> this email to serve as a notice.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The basic architecture is pretty
simple, consisting of a<br>
>>>> number of import agents, which
can import the users inventory<br>
>>>> and backing assets to a local
database, and a number of upload<br>
>>>> agents which can upload inventory
content to a specific account.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Backup/Import<br>
>>>> There are two import agents, one
which will import .iar files<br>
>>>> and one which works very much
like I believe "Stored<br>
>>>> Inventory" works, which can
backup the inventory of an avatars<br>
>>>> inventory. Avatar backup/Import
is governed by a policy.<br>
>>>> Currently there are two policies,
one complying with a very<br>
>>>> restrictive interpretation of the
Linden Labs policy on<br>
>>>> backups, and a completely
unrestricted policy, where anything<br>
>>>> that can be downloaded will be
downloaded.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> When a new account is registered
in MyInventory it checks if<br>
>>>> the account is for a Linden Lab
grid and limits the choices of<br>
>>>> policies to policies suitable for
LL's TOS, I cannot and do<br>
>>>> not know if other grids have
similar policies, I can well<br>
>>>> imagine that Avination has a
similar restrictions, and would<br>
>>>> like similar logic implemented to
restrict the download. Any<br>
>>>> grid operator which would like to
have backup governed by a<br>
>>>> more restrictive policy are
invited to notify me and I will<br>
>>>> attempt to implement the policy
prior to the first release of<br>
>>>> the source code. or supply
patches at a later time.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Upload/Export<br>
>>>> MyInventory supports two
mechanisms for uploading inventory<br>
>>>> content, traditional upload using
UDP/CAPS and direct access<br>
>>>> to the inventory and asset
web-services.<br>
>>>> Due to limitations in the
UDP/CAPS protocol each upload will<br>
>>>> create new assets, and as of my
latest read of the Open<br>
>>>> Simulator code the asset store
does not support "single<br>
>>>> instance assets", i.e. it does
not use a checksum to verify if<br>
>>>> the asset already exists, for
this reason MyInventory prefers<br>
>>>> to upload using direct access to
asset and inventory<br>
>>>> web-services.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I would propose that the grids
which chooses to support<br>
>>>> MyInventory augment their
"GridInfoService" entries with the<br>
>>>> url's for the asset and inventory
web-services, e.g.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> [GridInfoService]<br>
>>>> assets = <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://assets.osgrid.org"
target="_blank">http://assets.osgrid.org</a><br>
>>>> inventory = <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://inventory.osgrid.org" target="_blank">http://inventory.osgrid.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best regards<br>
>>>> Snowcrash<br>
>>>><br>
</div>
</div>
>>>>
------------------------------**------------------------------**<br>
>>>> ------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
______________________________**_________________<br>
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
>>>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists." target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.</a>**<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://berlios.de"
target="_blank">berlios.de</a><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
______________________________**_________________<br>
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists." target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.</a>**<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://berlios.de" target="_blank">berlios.de</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
______________________________**_________________<br>
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>>
______________________________**______________________________**<br>
<div>>>> ____________<br>
>>><br>
>>> Opensim User: In Gridmode on Version 0.7.4.
Nine Instances with 56<br>
>>> Regions. on Windows 7, 64-bit. Phenom 9500 2.2
GHz Quad Core, Terabyte Hard<br>
>>> Drive, 8gig DDR2 RAM. Used XAMPP to load PHP
Version 5.3.0, Apache<br>
>>> and MySQL 5.1.41-community edition. Groups,
Profiles, Vivox Voice and<br>
>>> Offline Messages all working. (Not yet Public,
6 users allowed Now).<br>
</div>
>>>
______________________________**______________________________**<br>
>>> ____________<br>
>>><br>
>>> ______________________________**_________________<br>
>>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a>><br>
<div>>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de"
target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>> _______________________________________________<br>
> Opensim-users mailing list<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de"
target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
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href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
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href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>
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</blockquote>
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