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<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users" target="_blank"><font color="#0068cf">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</font></a><BR> <BR> <BR>this is a very interesting newsletter,,where you can see exchanges of information going on between some of the most prominant developers in open sim ..you can join and recieve regular clips like this one..clicking on links usually turns up something interesting ..<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><br> <BR><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>> From: opensim-users-request@lists.berlios.de<br>> Subject: Opensim-users Digest, Vol 60, Issue 53<br>> To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:00:02 +0200<br>> <br>> Send Opensim-users mailing list submissions to<br>> opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> <br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users<br>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> opensim-users-request@lists.berlios.de<br>> <br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> opensim-users-owner@lists.berlios.de<br>> <br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> than "Re: Contents of Opensim-users digest..."<br>> <br>> <br>> Today's Topics:<br>> <br>> 1. Re: Question: Avatar Draw Weight (Kay McLennan)<br>> 2. Re: Blender Export to OpenSim - Arrrgh (Jeeper)<br>> 3. Re: Question: Avatar Draw Weight (Justin Clark-Casey)<br>> <br>> <br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 12:32:54 -0500<br>> From: Kay McLennan <mclennan.kay@gmail.com><br>> To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question: Avatar Draw Weight<br>> Message-ID:<br>> <CAEUbLkzPmxJ8rNuek8z9hw9+NN9HN6_qnkihE511f2xE_X=Bxw@mail.gmail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>> <br>> Hi Gwyn,<br>> <br>> Thank you for the avatar draw weight resource links!<br>> <br>> Best,<br>> Kay<br>> <br>> <br>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Gwyneth Llewelyn <<br>> gwyneth.llewelyn@gwynethllewelyn.net> wrote:<br>> <br>> > Dear Kay,<br>> ><br>> > You might wish read how Avatar Draw Weight is calculated:<br>> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Rendering_weight<br>> ><br>> > Base calculation is indeed linked to the number of triangles an avatar<br>> > has, and, of course, any attachment will add to that value. But extra<br>> > settings like glow, flexi, and some scripts will add even more.<br>> ><br>> > But remember: except for scripts on attachments, Avatar Draw Weight is a<br>> > measure of *viewer-side *lag, i.e. how big an effort *your* graphics card<br>> > has to make in order to render an avatar, and *not* an impact on the *<br>> > server* where OpenSim is running. While an avatar with tons of<br>> > attachments needs to download them first ? which will create some impact on<br>> > the simulator, as it starts sending all that data to you; the more avatars<br>> > with attachments on the region, the more effort the simulator has to do ?<br>> > after they're fully loaded, they should have no impact on the simulator any<br>> > more (attachments are phantom). Scripts, of course, running server-side,<br>> > are a different story. Scriptless attachments should not make a huge<br>> > difference on the simulator (except during the initial load).<br>> ><br>> > On the other hand, viewers will definitely notice the impact of high draw<br>> > weights. This is mostly noticeable on low-end, old graphics cards, which<br>> > cannot process so many triangles per frame. It's not so easy to find specs<br>> > for each and every card out there, and to know where the threshold is.<br>> > Modern, high-end graphics cards can render so many polygons per frame that<br>> > I would seriously suspect that they would not notice much of a difference.<br>> ><br>> > A simple rule of thumb: Draw weight of 1000 = just the standard avatar =<br>> > 7500 triangles<br>> > Everything above 1000, divided by 5, gives the amount of extra triangles<br>> > (assuming no glow, no flexiprims, etc.) So an avatar with draw weight of<br>> > 25,950 would have at most 12,500 or so triangles. 18 of those would come up<br>> > to 225,000 triangles. As far back as 2001, high-end graphic cards would<br>> > easily handle 60-100k triangles per frame, assuming 30 FPS (<br>> > http://www.gamedev.net/topic/55764-how-many-triangles-do-most-computer-games-render-per-frame/).<br>> > In 2004, 400-500k triangles at 30 FPS seemed to be more typical (<br>> > http://www.gamedev.net/topic/253770-how-many-triangles-can-your-engine-handle/<br>> > )<br>> ><br>> > Raz Welles has a thorough explanation of where all those triangles come<br>> > from:<br>> > http://razwelles.blogspot.pt/2012/06/opensim-and-mesh-understanding.html He<br>> > quotes a "typical" graphics card being able to render 1.5 million triangles<br>> > at 33 FPS. His articles is from June 2012, so you can see how the amount of<br>> > triangle rendering per second has been growing steadily in the past decade.<br>> ><br>> > Still, all these numbers are merely a rough guideline. LL's own engine on<br>> > the viewer might have performance limits as well ? i.e. it may not be able<br>> > to send all those triangles to the OpenGL layer quickly enough for the GPU<br>> > to tender them. OpenGL, in return, also has a limit on how many triangles<br>> > it can send. And finally, these counts are usually for untextured triangles<br>> > ? add texturing, and the number obviously drops!<br>> ><br>> > However, I think it's a relatively safe bet that anyone with a graphics<br>> > card of around 2010 or so should easily view those 18 avatars with Avatar<br>> > Draw Weight of 25,950, as easily as if they had no attachments, and still<br>> > get 30 FPS, if they don't turn on shadows or the more sophisticated<br>> > advanced lighting options on the newest viewers.<br>> ><br>> > I hope this helps.<br>> ><br>> > Cheers,<br>> ><br>> > - Gwyn<br>> ><br>> > On 29/08/2012, at 16:18, Kay McLennan wrote:<br>> ><br>> > OpenSim-User List Serve Colleagues,<br>> ><br>> > I currently use the Zen and Phoenix viewers (3) and noticed how the<br>> > "avatar draw weight" feature in these viewers reveals a dramatic increase<br>> > in my draw weight whenever I add any attachments to my avatar (read: prim<br>> > hair, face light, sculpt shoes or clothes, etc.). More specifically,<br>> > without any attachments, my avatar has a draw weight of 1,000 but with the<br>> > above listed attachments has a draw weight of 25,950. Further, when I was<br>> > at an [OpenSim] in-world meeting last week, I observed how many of the<br>> > approximately 18 avatars in attendance had even higher draw weights.<br>> ><br>> > What is the significance of the avatar draw weight when it comes to region<br>> > performance and lag? More specifically, if a region can support 18 avatars<br>> > with fairly high draw weights, could the region support double the number<br>> > of avatars if everyone used an avatar than only had a draw weight of 1,000?<br>> ><br>> > Thank you in advance.<br>> ><br>> > -- Kay McLennan<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --<br>> ><br>> > "I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."<br>> ><br>> > -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Opensim-users mailing list<br>> > Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users<br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL: <https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-users/attachments/20120829/f73b5183/attachment-0001.html><br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 2<br>> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:59:34 -0700<br>> From: Jeeper <jeepershim@telus.net><br>> To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Blender Export to OpenSim - Arrrgh<br>> Message-ID: <503E6696.30208@telus.net><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>> <br>> On 29/08/2012 8:08 AM, DocSym wrote:<br>> > Hey all,<br>> ><br>> > I'm attempting to design some basic things in Blender and export them into<br>> > OpenSim. To be frank, I'm having a devil of a time. My objects aren't<br>> > oriented correctly (for example, a torus that is oriented to look like a<br>> > wheel (on a truck) looks like it's laying on the ground instead of attached<br>> > to the axle.) Some of my objects are missing parts, are see-through at<br>> > certain angles, and I can't figure out how to get that gosh darn invisible<br>> > box off of them so things (such as the soccer ball test I did) can actually<br>> > roll when made physical in OpenSim.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> The see through problem is probably the normals need to be corrected. <br>> Press "N" to open the properties, then under Mesh Display you can turn <br>> on Normals to see which way they are pointing. you want them pointing <br>> out, so on the left side, there are options to recalculate and flip. <br>> You might have to just select the faces that are wrong and flip them.<br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> Message: 3<br>> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:03:46 +0100<br>> From: Justin Clark-Casey <jjustincc@googlemail.com><br>> To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question: Avatar Draw Weight<br>> Message-ID: <503E9FD2.7090306@googlemail.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed<br>> <br>> As Gwyneth says, I think avatar draw weight will only really affect lag on the viewer side due to the time taken to draw <br>> more complicated avatars.<br>> <br>> Perceived simulator lag tends to depend on the simulator machine specs (big difference between 1 and 2 cores, for <br>> instance), the quality of the network between viewer and simulator, the number of objects on the simulator, the number <br>> of running scripts and the number of users (real users as opposed to NPCs). There are other factors but those tend to <br>> be the major ones.<br>> <br>> On 29/08/12 17:45, Gwyneth Llewelyn wrote:<br>> > Dear Kay,<br>> ><br>> > You might wish read how Avatar Draw Weight is calculated: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Rendering_weight<br>> ><br>> > Base calculation is indeed linked to the number of triangles an avatar has, and, of course, any attachment will add to<br>> > that value. But extra settings like glow, flexi, and some scripts will add even more.<br>> ><br>> > But remember: except for scripts on attachments, Avatar Draw Weight is a measure of /viewer-side /lag, i.e. how big an<br>> > effort /your/ graphics card has to make in order to render an avatar, and /not/ an impact on the /server/ where OpenSim<br>> > is running. While an avatar with tons of attachments needs to download them first ? which will create some impact on the<br>> > simulator, as it starts sending all that data to you; the more avatars with attachments on the region, the more effort<br>> > the simulator has to do ? after they're fully loaded, they should have no impact on the simulator any more (attachments<br>> > are phantom). Scripts, of course, running server-side, are a different story. Scriptless attachments should not make a<br>> > huge difference on the simulator (except during the initial load).<br>> ><br>> > On the other hand, viewers will definitely notice the impact of high draw weights. This is mostly noticeable on low-end,<br>> > old graphics cards, which cannot process so many triangles per frame. It's not so easy to find specs for each and every<br>> > card out there, and to know where the threshold is. Modern, high-end graphics cards can render so many polygons per<br>> > frame that I would seriously suspect that they would not notice much of a difference.<br>> ><br>> > A simple rule of thumb: Draw weight of 1000 = just the standard avatar = 7500 triangles<br>> > Everything above 1000, divided by 5, gives the amount of extra triangles (assuming no glow, no flexiprims, etc.) So an<br>> > avatar with draw weight of 25,950 would have at most 12,500 or so triangles. 18 of those would come up to 225,000<br>> > triangles. As far back as 2001, high-end graphic cards would easily handle 60-100k triangles per frame, assuming 30 FPS<br>> > (http://www.gamedev.net/topic/55764-how-many-triangles-do-most-computer-games-render-per-frame/). In 2004, 400-500k<br>> > triangles at 30 FPS seemed to be more typical<br>> > (http://www.gamedev.net/topic/253770-how-many-triangles-can-your-engine-handle/)<br>> ><br>> > Raz Welles has a thorough explanation of where all those triangles come from:<br>> > http://razwelles.blogspot.pt/2012/06/opensim-and-mesh-understanding.html He quotes a "typical" graphics card being able<br>> > to render 1.5 million triangles at 33 FPS. His articles is from June 2012, so you can see how the amount of triangle<br>> > rendering per second has been growing steadily in the past decade.<br>> ><br>> > Still, all these numbers are merely a rough guideline. LL's own engine on the viewer might have performance limits as<br>> > well ? i.e. it may not be able to send all those triangles to the OpenGL layer quickly enough for the GPU to tender<br>> > them. OpenGL, in return, also has a limit on how many triangles it can send. And finally, these counts are usually for<br>> > untextured triangles ? add texturing, and the number obviously drops!<br>> ><br>> > However, I think it's a relatively safe bet that anyone with a graphics card of around 2010 or so should easily view<br>> > those 18 avatars with Avatar Draw Weight of 25,950, as easily as if they had no attachments, and still get 30 FPS, if<br>> > they don't turn on shadows or the more sophisticated advanced lighting options on the newest viewers.<br>> ><br>> > I hope this helps.<br>> ><br>> > Cheers,<br>> ><br>> > - Gwyn<br>> ><br>> > On 29/08/2012, at 16:18, Kay McLennan wrote:<br>> ><br>> >> OpenSim-User List Serve Colleagues,<br>> >><br>> >> I currently use the Zen and Phoenix viewers (3) and noticed how the "avatar draw weight" feature in these viewers<br>> >> reveals a dramatic increase in my draw weight whenever I add any attachments to my avatar (read: prim hair, face<br>> >> light, sculpt shoes or clothes, etc.). More specifically, without any attachments, my avatar has a draw weight of<br>> >> 1,000 but with the above listed attachments has a draw weight of 25,950. Further, when I was at an [OpenSim] in-world<br>> >> meeting last week, I observed how many of the approximately 18 avatars in attendance had even higher draw weights.<br>> >><br>> >> What is the significance of the avatar draw weight when it comes to region performance and lag? More specifically, if<br>> >> a region can support 18 avatars with fairly high draw weights, could the region support double the number of avatars<br>> >> if everyone used an avatar than only had a draw weight of 1,000?<br>> >><br>> >> Thank you in advance.<br>> >><br>> >> -- Kay McLennan<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --<br>> ><br>> > "I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."<br>> ><br>> > -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Opensim-users mailing list<br>> > Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users<br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)<br>> OSVW Consulting<br>> http://justincc.org<br>> http://twitter.com/justincc<br>> <br>> <br>> ------------------------------<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>> Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users<br>> <br>> End of Opensim-users Digest, Vol 60, Issue 53<br>> *********************************************<br></div> </div></body>
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