<p>Thanks, Gary.<br>
I guess some people just need a life.<br>
It's all good.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Aug 20, 2011 12:34 PM, "Gary Beck" <<a href="mailto:gab4gab@gmail.com">gab4gab@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> actually this thread derailed much further back - it once was about 'Awaiting region handshake'<br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: Shaun Erickson <br>> To: <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a> <br>> Cc: <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a> <br>
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:31 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Awaiting region handshake<br>> <br>> <br>> Then you should have started a new thread, rather than hijacking this one. You know, there used to be a thing called nettiquette.<br>
> <br>> -ste<br>> <br>> On Aug 20, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Wayne <<a href="mailto:lppwayne@gmail.com">lppwayne@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> <br>> <br>> Hi Diva,<br>> I''ve been running the diva version of opensim for a week now and kudos to you for a simple setup and solid config.<br>
> I am having trouble in one area though and that is in getting the groups module working. Nothing had worked and I am caught in the confirmation screen over and over-the group never creates, no record in database, nothing.<br>
> Can you please offer an example of how the setup should look for groups and what and where should files be?<br>> Thank you.<br>> I know this Has nothing to do with this thread but I saw your name and jumped to ask this question.<br>
> <br>> Wayne<br>> <br>> On Aug 20, 2011 12:06 PM, "Diva Canto" <<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com">diva@metaverseink.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > Let me rephrase your question: can you start with a standalone and a <br>
> > MySQL DB, and add more simulator servers running standalones [connected <br>> > to that same DB] to obtain a grid? The answer is yes -- that's a <br>> > serverless grid ("serverless" means that it runs without the Robust or <br>
> > other resource server(s) in between the simulators and the DB server). <br>> > It doesn't work with the configuration that comes out-of-the-box for <br>> > standalones, but it's just a matter of changing a few connectors for <br>
> > this configuration in the .inis.<br>> > I use use such configuration on my grids.<br>> > <br>> > On 8/19/2011 6:28 PM, Guardian wrote:<br>> >> This then leads to the question, can a standalone be changed over to grid?<br>
> >> If you use a mysql backend for the standalone, can it just be changed <br>> >> over to grid in the configs?<br>> >><br>> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:52 AM, Diva Canto <<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com">diva@metaverseink.com</a> <br>
> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com">diva@metaverseink.com</a>>> wrote:<br>> >><br>> >> See basic definitions here, which is the model that has been<br>> >> guiding OpenSim development for a while:<br>
> >> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Virtual_World_Model">http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Virtual_World_Model</a><br>> >><br>> >> In principle, the concept of grid is orthogonal to the concept of<br>
> >> simulator trust domain. In practice, and in the vast majority of<br>> >> cases, they are unified (i.e. 1 grid = 1 trust domain), but in a<br>> >> few but famous cases, they aren't -- that's the case of OSGrid,<br>
> >> which is a grid with several simulator trust domains in it. If the<br>> >> concept of "simulator trust domain" is too abstract, substitute<br>> >> the expression "multiple simulator trust domains" by "connecting<br>
> >> someone else's simulator to a grid".<br>> >><br>> >> Technically, what makes a grid being a grid is having multiple<br>> >> simulator servers serving different portions of the virtual space,<br>
> >> instead of just one simulator server -- that's all. One can run a<br>> >> grid with an external resource server (Robust, Simian) or without,<br>> >> using only simulator servers and a shared DB; the latter<br>
> >> configuration is what I call serverless grids:<br>> >> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Serverless_Grids">http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Serverless_Grids</a> -- that article is<br>> >> outdated, but it explains the concept.<br>
> >><br>> >> When there are multiple simulators (=grid), whether the simulators<br>> >> are operated by the same authority or decentralized by several<br>> >> authorities is a different issue. For example, the Avination grid<br>
> >> and the SL grid are each operated entirely by one authority; the<br>> >> OSGrid grid is operated by a multitude of authorities [that must<br>> >> implicitly trust each other at the moment].<br>
> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> On 8/19/2011 8:13 AM, Bob Wellman wrote:<br>> >>> I have run Opensim both standalone as standalone and for the last<br>> >>> three years PMgrid in grid mode so I understand the differences<br>
> >>> very well.<br>> >>><br>> >>> However I can see where newcommers get confused when we talk<br>> >>> about grids beings a collection of regions and then use the term<br>
> >>> "grid mode" to mean running using several servers or service<br>> >>> instances in collaberation to run a grid.<br>> >>><br>> >>> I have often wondered if it wouldnt be better to coin a different<br>
> >>> term for what we currently call grid mode to avoid confusion.<br>> >>> Maybe we could use Cooperative mode or Multi Service mode or<br>> >>> Distributed mode to describe the alternative mode to Standalone.<br>
> >>> Something that better decribes the mode of operation rather than<br>> >>> "grid" which I think should be used just to describe the region<br>> >>> arrangement. Just a thought!<br>
> >>><br>> >>> When Intels DSG work hits mainstream (soon I hope) we will need<br>> >>> to distinguish grids that run using the current central<br>> >>> Robust.exe(s) and one or more Opensim.exe instances (i.e. what we<br>
> >>> now call "Grid mode") to those that run the new even more<br>> >>> Distrubuted services provided by DSG.<br>> >>><br>> >>> Getting good clear terminology for mdes of operation defined now<br>
> >>> would help a lot in future I think.<br>> >>><br>> >>> Like I say just my thoughts. Any one else have thoughts on this?<br>> >>><br>> >>><br>
> >>><br>> >>> > Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:11:25 +0100<br>> >>> > From: <a href="mailto:t.gildersleeve@bradfordcollege.ac.uk">t.gildersleeve@bradfordcollege.ac.uk</a><br>
> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:t.gildersleeve@bradfordcollege.ac.uk">t.gildersleeve@bradfordcollege.ac.uk</a>><br>> >>> > To: <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>> >>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Awaiting region handshake<br>> >>> ><br>
> >>> > Thanks for the clarification Diva, me jumping in too quickly I<br>> >>> guess.<br>> >>> ><br>> >>> > I didn't think a standalone accepted region registration<br>
> >>> requests from<br>> >>> > other opensim.exe's, but that you needed robust.exe to accept<br>> >>> > registrations from other opensim.exe's. I know that opensim.exe<br>
> >>> > handles all the services when in standalone - but thought it<br>> >>> was "cut<br>> >>> > down" and didn't support external region registrations. I take<br>
> >>> it from<br>> >>> > what you say it can do that? I've never even tried tbh.<br>> >>> ><br>> >>> > What you say about owners not supporting ad-hoc regions being<br>
> >>> connected<br>> >>> > is of course true but that is a policy issue and enforced by<br>> >>> firewall<br>> >>> > rules. As far as I am aware robust.exe WILL accept a registration<br>
> >>> > request from other opensim.exe's if the port to it is left open. Of<br>> >>> > course, I may well be wrong with that but when I asked about<br>> >>> this before<br>
> >>> > (if there was any way to stop people registering with my grid -<br>> >>> I was<br>> >>> > told I had to block the port and that would be the way to do it).<br>
> >>> ><br>> >>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> >>> > From: <a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>> >>> > [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
> >>> Diva Canto<br>> >>> > Sent: 18 August 2011 20:56<br>> >>> > To: <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Awaiting region handshake<br>> >>> ><br>> >>> > > I believe you can create as many regions as you like in a<br>> >>> standalone<br>
> >>> > > but you are the only person that can go there I have created<br>> >>> both and<br>> >>> > > to have other ppl come to visit you need to be a grid<br>> >>> ><br>
> >>> > This is not correct. Standalones can handle users from anywhere<br>> >>> in the<br>> >>> > world, as long as the routers are configured for that.<br>> >>> ><br>
> >>> > > Basically, a standalone does not allow others to connect<br>> >>> their region<br>> >>> > > to your simulator, while a grid does. This has nothing to do<br>
> >>> with<br>> >>> > > people visiting it.<br>> >>> ><br>> >>> > This is also not correct.<br>> >>> > Most grids are operated by one single organization/person and don't<br>
> >>> > support the attachment of ad-hoc regions operated by others.<br>> >>> OSGrid is<br>> >>> > an exception in this respect.<br>> >>> ><br>> >>> > The difference between a standalone and a grid is simply the<br>
> >>> number of<br>> >>> > components (usually hardware) involved. A standalone has all<br>> >>> services<br>> >>> > running in one single process in one single machine; a grid has<br>
> >>> many<br>> >>> > simulator processes, usually on different machines, and it<br>> >>> typically<br>> >>> > centralizes resource management in yet other machine(s).<br>
> >>> ><br>> >>> > So if you just want a small world with a few thousand objects<br>> >>> in world<br>> >>> > at any given time, stay with a standalone; if you plan to scale<br>
> >>> up, look<br>> >>> > into the grid configuration.<br>> >>> ><br>> >>> > _______________________________________________<br>> >>> > Opensim-users mailing list<br>
> >>> > <a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
> >>> > <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>> >>> > _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> > Opensim-users mailing list<br>> >>> > <a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>> >>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
> >>> > <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> Opensim-users mailing list<br>> >>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
> >>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> Opensim-users mailing list<br>> >> <a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
> >> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>> >><br>
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