<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>I was just clarifying my earlier statements.<br><br>1.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Mono is backed by Microsoft - That is the basic problem. They have a fiduciary responsibility to stockholders that is in opposition to providing a seamless migration off of their product.<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>2.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">.Net is open source -</span> <a href="http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2010/07/richard-stallman-on-net-mono-and-dotgnu">http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2010/07/richard-stallman-on-net-mono-and-dotgnu</a><br>
/index.htm " 'open specification promise' is not something we can rely on"<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span><em>Eben Moglen</em>, Professor of Law, Columbia Law School<br>
I would suggest that a Columbia Law School Professor's opinion has a bit more weight than a layman's.<br><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>3. no need for sarcasm, your link is quite believable, as it says. "commercially reasonable terms and conditions" which are very specifically not free software.<br>
4. is simply assertions<br>5. yes, you are correct. OpenSim has gone far down a road that may well be a dead end. <br>6. "better" is a fuzzy term. Is a closed source OS better for an application builder? depends on the metric. <br>
Is one OS better than another? that quickly becomes "specmanship" with each side asserting that a given specification is critical. I'd point to OS on the list of fastest super computers, and you'd point to installed desktops (I am a fan of Microsoft's office suite) <br>
</span></span><br><br>none of this is relevant to my earlier statement - <br><span lang="EN-US">Free Software is Computer *Science* - open experiments with all the evidence available to all researchers. <br>The
opposite is the guild system where knowledge is hoarded and no one
outside the guild is allowed to know how things are done. It is
unnatural and requires the use of force (legal penalties) to impose. It
slows down the advancement of knowledge.</span><br>in conclusion;<br>if Opensim is to be used for education, then would a closed or open OS be more appropriate?<br><br>(appropriate != better)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:37 AM, Tedd Hansen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tedd@konge.net">tedd@konge.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="NO-BOK"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Hi</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Religion wars!!! :D</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>1.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Mono is backed by Microsoft: <a href="http://techrights.org/2008/08/20/microsoft-suse-coupons/" target="_blank">http://techrights.org/2008/08/20/microsoft-suse-coupons/</a> (I won’t bother searching for more sources for this one)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>2.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">.Net is open source: <a href="http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2008/01/16/net-framework-library-source-code-now-available.aspx" target="_blank">http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2008/01/16/net-framework-library-source-code-now-available.aspx</a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>3.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">C# and CLI are ECMA standards: <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa569283.aspx" target="_blank">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa569283.aspx</a> / <a href="http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm</a> / <a href="http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-335.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-335.htm</a><br>
<sarcasm>Oh my God, what is this? IT HAS TO BE FAKE!!!</sarcasm> <a href="http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma%20PATENT/ECMA-334%20&%20335/ECMA-335%204th%20Edition%20patent%20statements.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma%20PATENT/ECMA-334%20&%20335/ECMA-335%204th%20Edition%20patent%20statements.pdf</a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"><span>4.<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Most/all improvements to .Net the last few years has been additions. OpenSim has no problem waiting 6-12 months for Mono to catch up before using the additions, because none of these new features are critical. So yes, words can be used to argument on this point – but the reality is that it doesn’t matter if Mono is playing catch-up. If anything the developers have time to learn the new technology before implementing them resulting in increased code quality in OpenSim.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">And then we come to #5:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Unless someone are willing to rewrite OpenSim in another language which suits their taste better I think this conversation thread may have a relatively high probability of being of that popular culture metaphorical dead end that we sometimes hear about.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Now for OS: Now I won’t detail the kernels of Win vs Lin, but I can point out that anyone who says that either is better is basically an ignorant fool / troll / at the peak of Dunning-Kruger (pick one or more).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Br,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Tedd </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">J</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>lamont cranston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14. oktober 2010 10:41<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-users] re-why not a real OS?</span></p><div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I would point out that I did give a helpful link to the the original question (Drupal does run on Windows, my link was to their page)<br>
<br>My use of the word "real" is because Free Software is Computer *Science* - open experiments with all the evidence available to all researchers. <br>The opposite is the guild system where knowledge is hoarded and no one outside the guild is allowed to know how things are done. It is unnatural and requires the use of force (legal penalties) to impose. It slows down the advancement of knowledge.<br>
You don't need source code to break an operating system - Microsoft has demonstrated that beyond debate.<br>You do need source code to fix it. <br><br><br>looking at James comment </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><br>1. Pick your application</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2. Pick the language that best implements it</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">3. Pick the best operating system that supports it (natively is to be preferred)</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">4. pick the hardware that runs that operating system<br><br>OpenSim is being tied to Windows due to the use of .net (I agree with James parenthetical statement)<br>Mono is open, but it is a potential landmine of patent liability, which is why it has been dropped from Fedora/Red Hat.<br>
That loss of userbase/mindshare impacts on the development of Mono. <br><br>I'm pleased to hear that the garbage collection is being improved, but by design, Mono is locked into playing catch up against .net</span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As a result, the roadmap of a critical component belongs to a company that has their own agenda, and it may not support your project</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Having an open project dependent on a closed OS introduces a point of failure, outside of the developers control.<br>
<br>Suggesting nefarious scheming on the part of Microsoft is not unreasonable, given the company's history - from the days of the DR-DOS lawsuit to the theft of code from Plurk and the whole fuss over stolen XML code in their office suite back at the begining of this year. If Mono is an intentional landmine this project would be among the casualties, not even noticed in the larger scheme of things.<br>
<br><br>On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Ric Moore <</span><a href="mailto:wayward4now@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">wayward4now@gmail.com</span></a><span lang="EN-US">> wrote:</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">
<span lang="EN-US">On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 08:31 +0200, jabbaah wrote:<br>> You've got it - the world is black-and-white:<br>><br>> Linux is good,<br>> Windows is bad.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I certainly never stated that. I happen to not like Windows as MY OS and<br>
I was very careful to state it was a personal preference. Anyone is free<br>to use whatever blows up their dress.</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><br>> That's all.<br>
><br>> Nope, back to reality: I am working as a freelance IT professional for<br>> years now.<br>> If you have to install a new system for a specific task you'll have to<br>> decide which<br>> operating system will be used. There are typical tasks which will lead<br>
> you to a linux/unix/solaris<br>> installation and there are other jobs which will lead to a windows<br>> installation.<br>> Not to forget that there are typical os/x tasks which will lead to an<br>> xserve installation<br>
> or something similar (sometimes hardware dependant).<br>><br>> Back to OpenSim: You have the choice. I guess we don't have a 'typical'<br>> OpenSim<br>> installation. Linux or Windows. Your own decision. Both are as good as<br>
> the other.<br>><br>> Nothing bad about windows - but usually (if you rent a server) a few bucks<br>> more expensive than a linux box (due to license cost). That's all.<br>> But that's not a question of quality. If you'd use Red Hat Linux you had to<br>
> pay license fees, too.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In Red Hat's case, as I used to work there, you're paying for the<br>service per license but never for the software. Bob Young hired me back<br>
when, mostly to be the Goat amongst his 20 somethings Thoroughbreds, not<br>because I was a coder whizbang propeller head. If you don't need the<br>service, then CentOS can be installed for free. Again, that's bare<br>
knucks, but makes for one tough server.</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><br>> Far more important is bandwidth of internet connection, latency,<br>> size of ram, disk speed, number of cpu cores.</span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I most certainly concur with that. I'd give anything to tap the Sprint<br>fiber optic cable that runs through our front yard, it's a major route<br>on the net's backbone. When I asked how much to connect, I got an<br>
offhand "several grand a month ...or so". It goes from DC to Blackstone<br>VA down to Duke and UNC in North Carolina. Sweet. Probably the same line<br>that MS and Apple are tied into. Ric</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><br><br><br>--<br>My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:<br>"There are two Great Sins in the world...<br>..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.<br>Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.<br>
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