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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It <i>is</i> harmless.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The point is to divide it into “completely paranoid” and “fully
functional” distributions. Microsoft’s not going to sue Novell while they are
both doing highly profitable consulting together on Linux/Windows integration;
and suing something 5-10 years after it starts and you were aware of it, after releasing
the original for free (see Rotor); tends to result in the case getting nixed on
estoppel.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <b>On Behalf Of </b>lamont
cranston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 14 July 2009 6:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-users] Microsoft issues patent promise, dispels
Mono legal concerns<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id=ffxad2>
<p class=MsoNormal>Microsoft Mono move means exactly nothing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<a href="http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26224/1090/">http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26224/1090/</a><br>
<a href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/osp-gpl.html">http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/osp-gpl.html</a><br>
<br>
De Icaza announced that Mono will be split in half. <i>"In the next few
months we will be working towards splitting the jumbo Mono source code that
includes ECMA + A lot more into two separate source code distributions,"</i>
he explains, <i>"One will be ECMA, the other will contain our
implementation of <a href="http://ASP.NET">ASP.NET</a>, <a href="http://ADO.NET">ADO.NET</a>,
Winforms and others."</i><br>
<br>
After all the talk that Mono was "harmless", why the sudden
awareness of the risk?<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Frisby, Adam <<a
href="mailto:adam@deepthink.com.au">adam@deepthink.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Oh lord.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The point is quite simple – </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Mono is based on the EMCA
334/335 and ISO/IEC23270:2006 standards, those standards allow components
within them to be patent, provided they are licensable under ‘RAND’ terms
(Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory). The shadow hanging over Mono was that
Microsoft could charge a “reasonable” sum for whatever components within that
may be patented/[able].</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>By putting EMCA 334/335 into
the community pledge means Microsoft has waived the right to collect those
terms (in whole.), the exceptions are components of C# which are not in the
ECMA standards, these are – <a href="http://ASP.NET" target="_blank">ASP.NET</a>
(* - although there is a Microsoft implementation in under the MSPL I believe,
which voids the threat there[?]), <a href="http://ADO.NET" target="_blank">ADO.NET</a>
(used for database access to MSSQL, etc), WinForms[?] and some components of
the Microsoft.* namespace.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Because of this – Mono have
started separating their packages, so you can get a ‘clean’ version, and a
‘potentially has issues’ version (ie the version with ASP, ADO, etc). The good
news is, OpenSim will run on the ‘clean’ version – the only exception to this
will be the MSSQL adapter which relies on ADO.net – however given that anyone
using that adapter will also be very likely using .NET, I don’t believe that is
a problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ubuntu already ships a
separated distribution of Mono which allows you to only optionally install the
bits that aren’t covered by the patent pledge.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Adam</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>lamont cranston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 12 July 2009 11:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-users] Microsoft issues patent promise, dispels
Mono legal concerns</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Saying that it "clears up a bit of the FUD
around Mono" seems counter intuitive. It would seem to have validated the
claim that Mono relies on Microsoft patented technology. Microsoft seems to
have just declared that it does.<br>
Fact is not FUD.<br>
You don't need amnesty if you are innocent.<br>
<br>
I'm more interested in why Microsoft felt that this is a good idea? Mono is so
far below the public relations radar that it is invisible to 99% of the public.
<br>
What is in it for Microsoft to release this announcement at this time?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis <<a
href="mailto:eekee57@fastmail.fm" target="_blank">eekee57@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:13:40 -0700<br>
Kyle Hamilton <<a href="mailto:aerowolf@gmail.com" target="_blank">aerowolf@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis<<a
href="mailto:eekee57@fastmail.fm" target="_blank">eekee57@fastmail.fm</a>>
wrote:<br>
> > On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:00:20 +0000<br>
> > Opensource Obscure <<a href="mailto:open@autistici.org"
target="_blank">open@autistici.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >><br>
> >> At a first glance this is good news for Opensim users and<br>
> >> developers that use Linux. I'd like to hear comments,<br>
> >> especially from free-software advocates.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Microsoft issues patent promise, dispels Mono legal concerns<br>
> >> from Ars Technica - <a href="http://bit.ly/BasCG" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/BasCG</a>
or<br>
> >> <a
href="http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-issues-patent-promise-dispels-mono-concerns.ars"
target="_blank">http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-issues-patent-promise-dispels-mono-concerns.ars</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Just wondering how binding this promise is. I guess MS couldn't break
it without getting themselves bad press, but there's always a possibility of a
company finding itself in a tight corner & thinking maybe it's worth
breaking this. I find myself wondering if some, perhaps many big businesses are
designed to run as if they're in a tight corner all the time.<br>
><br>
><br>
> I'm not a lawyer, but I've learned a lot from Groklaw. This is not<br>
> legal advice, simply my interpretation of what I've read :):<br>
><br>
> The legal principle involved is called "estoppel" -- if you make
a<br>
> promise not to sue someone for doing B, and then they in good faith<br>
> rely on that promise and do B, you can't go back on your word and sue<br>
> them for it anyway. If the promise was made by the rightsholder (and<br>
> the fact that they issued it as a press release in written form), if<br>
> they try, they will have the court rule against them. It's been this<br>
> way since before we had a legal system in the US, and imported<br>
> England's.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>Really good to know, thanks. :)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
><br>
> (Technically, this is the same thing that a license is: you receive a<br>
> promise from the person who grants the license that they will not sue<br>
> you. It doesn't matter if you pay for it or not.)<br>
><br>
> This "promise" can be looked at as a "license" as far
as CLR runtimes<br>
> go: if someone tries to create a functional CLR implementation, they<br>
> have a license to any necessary patent claims that Microsoft holds<br>
> that must be infringed in order to adhere to the standard. This<br>
> license does not extend to non-CLR technologies, though.<br>
><br>
> Again, IANAL. Check with an IP lawyer if you want to.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>Strong enough reasoning for me. *nod*<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><br>
--<br>
Ethan Grammatikidis<br>
<br>
Those who are slower at parsing information must<br>
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.<br>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p>Opensim-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
-- <br>
(\__/)<br>
(='.'=)<br>
(")_(")<o:p></o:p></p>
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(\__/)<br>
(='.'=)<br>
(")_(")<o:p></o:p></p>
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