[Opensim-users] List of banned viewers for config files?

Sun Aug 19 13:30:35 UTC 2012

R Gunther, you said that "Banning a viewer is just stupid, ..."

Well, I guess you don't know anything about when the Emerald Viewer
developers seriously violated the SL ToS, gathered info on users, conducted
a DDoS attack against a detractor, all of which resulted in the viewer
being banned from SL? Given such black-hat hacker behviour by those
developers, wouldn't you ban such a viewer from your grid, or would you
rather put visitors at risk?

Sarge

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Akira Sonoda <akira.sonoda.1 at gmail.com>wrote:

> As you might notice. http://www.flickr.com/photos/akirasonoda/7814375104/ A
> majority of the OSGrid residents using those "buggy" viewers. And i guess
> there is possibly no one in OSgrid who does not have installed one of them
> in addition to his favorite experimental viewer...
>
> As you might know Amazon has datacenters located at different places. One
> is located in Ireland. I have chosen that one, because the goal of that
> party was to have a profiler running in parallel in order to have an idea
> to see what is going wrong.
>
> I am really not that comfortable with banning viewers. And I hope to open
> this region as sooon as we have evidence the sim can support all those
> viwers with a lot of people (15 to 30) simultaneously partying with a
> decent amount of lag and no forced logoff because of ACK timeouts, failing
> presence service calls etc.
>
>
>
> 2012/8/18 R.Gunther <rigun at rigutech.nl>
>
>  Banning a viewer is just stupid, especially because the newer viewers
>> work better.
>> But what i dont understand is that you blame the distance from region to
>> grid server.
>> I can remember something that you did have the same problems in EC2 cloud
>> on windows server.
>> and the EC2 cloud is in usa. So that dont explain much. You now lock
>> people out of a region only because the dont use imprudence or some other
>> "buggy" viewer.
>>
>>
>> On 2012-08-18 17:07, Akira Sonoda wrote:
>>
>> Should be fine... is the correct wording :-) It works fine for Sims with
>> 1 to 5 Avatars simultaneously which is possibly 99.9% of the whole Landmass
>> served by OpenSim, but on crowded spaces very distant (Europe) from the
>> Asset- Inventory etc. Severs ( California ) it does not... especially if
>> the Cache Hit Ratio is low. Since November 2011 when those caps were
>> introduced we only had problems which could be mitigated by disabling those
>> caps and with the viewer bans in place we had quite a successful OSG5B
>> Friday Party with 37 Avatars simultaneously partying without restart ( okie
>> by the end of the party at around 01:00 CET the presence service went
>> somehow corrupt and it was no longer possible to join the party ). Failed
>> to verify presence or something like that was the message in the log.
>> Yestertday again 22 People with the viewer restrictions i have in place
>> plus disabled lindencps:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/akirasonoda/7803972118/  no major problem
>> ... feedback was: Rezzing is better, less clouds ...
>>
>>  But for sure we'd like to welcome all Viewers at the party... enabling
>> getMesh ... should not be that much of an issue, because not too many
>> Avatar wear Meshes... on the other hand, most of the visitors still use the
>> imprudence especially if we enforce it somehow by banning most other viewer
>> capable of rendering meshes, therefore there is no big rush to enable
>> getMesh again...
>>
>> Right now I am thinking of factoring the whole HTTP stuff out of the
>> OpenSim into a separate Process, in order to have OpenSim doing what it can
>> best, acting as a Region Server calculating physics and executing scripts
>> and serving legacy UDP Packets to the Viewers. I hope to be able to start a
>> Proof of Concept rather soon. In parallel I will do further testing with
>> the different viwers and the different combination in order to get further
>> insights.
>>
>>  take care
>> Akira
>>
>>
>> 2012/8/14 Justin Clark-Casey <jjustincc at googlemail.com>
>>
>>> GetMesh and GetTexture should be fine in 0.7.4-rc1 (and probably
>>> earlier).
>>>
>>> I think the "may lead to poor performance" was rather cautious.  If
>>> anything, fetching via HTTP should lead to better performance since it's
>>> not generating lots of UDP messages that have to traverse OpenSimulator's
>>> UDP client stack (and hence appear to be able to hold up/crowd out other
>>> UDP messages in the process).
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13/08/12 18:42, Akira Sonoda wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Word,
>>>>
>>>> Because with those caps
>>>>
>>>> Cap_GetTexture=""
>>>> Cap_GetMesh=""
>>>> Cap_FetchInventoryDescendents2=""
>>>> Cap_FetchInventory2=""
>>>>
>>>> you won't see any textures on prims ... meaning all prims will be
>>>> invisible. Only Singularity 1.7 has this problem and is therefore
>>>> banned
>>>> The same applies for the experimental Cool VL Viewer which will be on
>>>> the banned list as well.
>>>>
>>>> Once I am certain at least GetTexture and GetMesh won't harm, they
>>>> possibly can be also allowed. But right now i do what is written in
>>>> the comment of the OpenSim.ini:
>>>>
>>>>     ; This is disabled by default. Change if you see fit. Note that
>>>>      ; serving this cap from the simulators may lead to poor performace.
>>>>
>>>> Poor Performance ... I am sensitive on that .... and it is even worse...
>>>>
>>>> Take care
>>>> Akira
>>>>
>>>> 2012/8/13, drwhiet at spacefriends.de <drwhiet at spacefriends.de>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Akira,
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you banning Singularity ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Wordfromthe Wise
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13.08.2012, at 00:25, Akira Sonoda <akira.sonoda.1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Fleep,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, banning viewers is not a good thing, especially not on osgrid,
>>>>>> because osgrid is here for testing the OpenSimulator under real life
>>>>>> usage
>>>>>> and as far as i know OpenSim wants to support all of the viewers
>>>>>> floating
>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Buuuuut ... it is really annoying to have a sim crashing when you
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> party with some 15 to 30 people partying. Therefore I enabled on one
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the 50 sims i am maintaining, the following rules:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AllowedClients="Phoenix|Imprudence|Cool|Singularity|Firestorm|0.6.3"
>>>>>> BannedClients="Singularity 1.7"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those should support most of the used viewers:
>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/akirasonoda/7769188218/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Firestorm is in, because many people use it. This is the riskiest part
>>>>>> because with my avatar i crash ( or at least produce ACK timeouts for
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> viewers ) the sims all the time using the latest Firestorm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have your own grid, then you can apply viewer restrictions on
>>>>>> grid
>>>>>> level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Akira
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2012/8/9 Fleep Tuque <fleep513 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering if anyone was willing to share their list of banned
>>>>>> viewers used in the config files for Opensim?  I don't know what the
>>>>>> latest and greatest bad viewers are (or really any of them since I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> use them!), but if anyone has a good list, I for one would appreciate
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> info.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record, I understand that the banned viewer list in the
>>>>>> config can
>>>>>> be overridden by a savvy griefer, so it's not air tight security, but
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> figure any effort to combat it doesn't hurt..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Chris/Fleep
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris M. Collins (SL/OS: Fleep Tuque)
>>>>>> Center for Simulations & Virtual Environments Research (UCSIM)
>>>>>> UCIT Instructional & Research Computing
>>>>>> University of Cincinnati
>>>>>> 406A Zimmer Hall
>>>>>> 315 College Drive
>>>>>> PO BOX 210088
>>>>>> Cincinnati, OH 45221-0088
>>>>>> chris.collins at uc.edu
>>>>>> (513) 556-3018 <%28513%29%20556-3018>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ucsim.uc.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing listOpensim-users at lists.berlios.dehttps://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://opensimulator.org/pipermail/opensim-users/attachments/20120819/29875337/attachment.html>