[Opensim-users] ToS and HG

[Sarge Misfit]

Thanks. I hadn't intended on making my own ToS "bullet-proof", and I
will be making it as plain language as I can. I'm not even at the
point of drafting one yet. But those are good points to keep in mind.
When it comes to accepting and agreeing to a ToS, people generally do
so at the time they create their account, generally done through the
grid's WebUI. My concern is mainly about visitors who arrive via HG. I
don't want people to end up inadvertantly violating terms.

On 9/14/11, Karen Palen <karenpalensl at gmail.com> wrote:
> There are notecard giver scripts on the OSG Scripting Form that do this.
>
> They range from simple to sophisticated.
>
> On 09/14/2011 12:26 AM, M.E. Verhagen wrote:
>> Is it possible to give people who hypergrid a notecard when they arrive ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/9/14 Karen Palen <karenpalensl at gmail.com>
>>
>>> I can only repeat what I learned in my "setting up a business" seminar a
>>> few years ago:
>>>
>>> "Your goal should NEVER be to make your TOS/Rules/Agreement legally
>>> bulletproof. If there is that much money involved that it is really
>>> necessary then you need to spend the money for a lawyer!
>>>
>>> "What you should do is try very hard to make the rules/ToS/Agreement
>>> state exactly what you mean and be extremely clea rin stating that. This
>>> is the starting point if you hire a lawyer anyway.
>>>
>>> "If you do a good enough job then people will either comply, or go away
>>> (be banned!). Even if it ends up in court the fact that it was clearly
>>> written and easy to understand will be a major help in your case.
>>>
>>> "Lawsuits generally only result from two or more parties come up with
>>> different interpretations about what was said or agreed. If it is
>>> completely clear then there is simply no point in going to court!"
>>>
>>> Sadly that level of clarity is harder to do than it seems, and you might
>>> want to hire a lawyer just to get the phrasing exactly right and
>>> consider all of the possibilities.
>>>
>>> In any event plan on several drafts, and get a couple of people who see
>>> the document for the first time to read it and tell you in their own
>>> words what they think it says. You WILL be surprised the first few times
>>> you do this - I KNOW!! :-)
>>>
>>> Oh yes if you are planning on something that large/critical, then ALSO
>>> look into setting up a business entity (Corporation, LLC, or whatever)
>>> to run it.
>>>
>>> See http://www.keytlaw.com/ for a summary of this aspect.
>>>
>>> "Information & Articles about Arizona and United States Law"
>>>
>>> Keyt is an Arizona/US lawyer, but the issues he raises are universal. I
>>> highly recommend studying his website!
>>>
>>> As Keyt says in one of his articles, the day the process server knocks
>>> on the door is one day too late!
>>>
>>> Karen
>>>
>>> On 09/13/2011 10:32 AM, Sarge Misfit wrote:
>>>> Location, or jurisdiction actually, is definitely a big factor. From
>>>> what I have seen is that it is the location of the grid's "official"
>>>> headquarters that is the deciding factor. However, every ToS that I
>>>> have seen also specifically states the jurisdiction, so it may be that
>>>> I would have to include that as a requirement. I had planned to
>>>> anyway, but its a good idea to raise that issue to, for the benefit of
>>>> others. I don't think its about how strict a law is. Having worked as
>>>> a researcher in a law office (quite some time ago), I can tell you
>>>> that this is pretty new ground, so we may be developing precedent
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>>  I just don't want to be the chum that gets tossed into the pool :-)
>>>> But I also don't want to end up with some overly long legalistic ToS,
>>>> either. I want to develop one that is in plain language and easy to
>>>> understand. In fact, I am using SL's ToS as an example of what NOT to
>>>> do *chuckles*
>>>>
>>>> On 9/13/11, Robert Martin <robertltux at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Sarge Misfit
>>>>> <fubat.enterprises at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Doesn't HG already land a person at 128, 128, ground?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I'm asking about this is that I am planning on making my
>>>>>> stand-alone public and having a good ToS in place is important. I
>>>>>> don't want to end up setting up a visitor as violating anything. Other
>>>>>> recent discussions have raised this issue, mostly about avatars, but
>>>>>> also the very important issue of intellectual property protection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, the DMCA applies to US-based grids, but I'm Canadian, so
>>>>>> my ToS should include something about Canadian IP protection law
>>>>>> having jurisdiction. I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The real hook is that the law gets "messy" since there are possibly 3
>>>>> different countries involved and the overlap in laws may cause
>>>>> conflicts.
>>>>> 1 users physical location
>>>>> 2 users POP /network "location"
>>>>> 3 location for the grid server/ grid owner <---- this may actually be
>>>>> a fourth location
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think that somebody needs to throw enough "chum" into a shark
>>>>> pool to get this sorted out as a first pass effort.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case i think that the stricter law applies (which would be the
>>>>> US DMCA) for those using a Canadian Grid in the US.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Robert L Martin
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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