[Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done?

Imago imagorabbit at gmail.com
Tue Jan 12 06:08:05 UTC 2010 

Ah! Thank you. I did read something on the subject, but then suffered a hard 
drive death and it wiped out any settings I had. :( Google comes up with way 
too much junk when you look for stuff as well as Mantis stuff and Jiras. I 
will check in to this. So, now I know it is possible. :D Now, it's just 
finding a way to do it. *shrugs and laughs* If it keeps a few kids out than 
that's fine. I'd rather have fun then to have to police my console for 
logins. :D

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Teravus Ovares" <teravus at gmail.com>
To: <opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done?


> The viewer information is sent when the viewer logs in.      If you
> check the viewer channel version string when the viewer logs in, you
> can deny based on a string match.      That's the easy (and least
> effective way) to lock only specific viewers.
>
> I believe that diva and Melanie_T were the last to work on these
> areas..    so they would probably be able to tell you where to check
> 'best'.
>
> One thing to note, however, is..
>
> The viewer logs into the 'user service' by sending an XMLRPC request
> to the HTTP Service with the login_to_simulator method.    It's at
> this time that the 'viewer channel string' should be checked.
>
> Teravus
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mostly I want this because of piece of mind, but also because I am
>> considering compiling a viewer on Hippo code that will have a different
>> channel code altogether that I will probably use for the sim. If I can 
>> lock
>> off viewers that don't have my exact channel or code then I can be sure 
>> only
>> official viewers can get in. Right now the sim is only for friends but if 
>> I
>> open it up to more I wouldn't want idiots coming in and mucking about the
>> place. Which is why I was asking. I know that some opensim *shaking head* 
>> I
>> wish I could remember who and where banned certain viewers from logging 
>> in.
>> I'm not sure how she/he did it, though, but it got me curious as to how 
>> it's
>> done. That and I wouldn't really want someone using something like Cryo 
>> or
>> even Meerkat, but as you said... They probably all have the same default
>> code. But if I put in another code and compiled it off of hippo or 
>> Linden's
>> viewer I could put in my own channel and have others not able to enter. I
>> like security and peace of mind, but security in this day and age is a 
>> myth.
>> (Like those stupid broadcasting things that were supposed to stop 
>> copybot.)
>>
>> But I was just curious if anyone had done it or heard of it. I want to 
>> say
>> openlifegrid did it, but I can't remember so I don't want to say for sure
>> until I find it again. (computer crashes suck.)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Karen Palen" <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
>> To: <opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be 
>> done?
>>
>>
>>> As I think of it the answer is the same.
>>>
>>> The Linden Labs viewer does send an identification and version number, 
>>> bat
>>> that really does very little. Almost every viewer out there is based on
>>> the current LL viewer and many people don't bother changing this code 
>>> for
>>> their experimental versions.
>>>
>>> For example I just checked and I have a customised LL viewer where the
>>> only change is that it will log on to my private sim by default. The ID
>>> codes are identical to the original since I never bothered to change 
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I use it to make sure that my private sim will run OK with the 
>>> "official"
>>> viewer.
>>>
>>> I am not really sure why you would want that restriction though. Should 
>>> I
>>> be considering that for my sim? Have I missed something here?
>>>
>>> Sorry.
>>>
>>> Karen
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be
>>>> done?
>>>> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:05 PM
>>>> I don't think anyone is
>>>> understanding. :D It's not just Cryo. I want only
>>>> Linden Lab viewers to be able to login. I've seen it done
>>>> on other
>>>> opensim's. I know people can get around that. But the point
>>>> is... Not
>>>> everyone is a coder. So, while they could compile and make
>>>> it look like a
>>>> Linden Lab viewer then so be it. I just want to know if
>>>> there's a mod or
>>>> string that I can put in to opensim to see what channel the
>>>> viewer is
>>>> sending, and if it's not the right one than to display an
>>>> error message that
>>>> would tell them to download an official release in order to
>>>> login.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I should have chosen my words better. Mentioning Cryo
>>>> is like
>>>> mentioning copybot, and responses only seem to be based on
>>>> theft and copy
>>>> protection. I just want to know if there's a string to
>>>> block a viewer. I
>>>> know people have done it I just can't remember what opensim
>>>> I saw it done
>>>> on. I also know that if I had Cryo source code I could
>>>> compile and make it
>>>> look like a Second Life release viewer. But not everyone is
>>>> a hacker or a
>>>> coder or both. Most people don't know how or can't compile
>>>> a viewer or are
>>>> too lazy to. So, they go look for one, and that's the basis
>>>> for my thinking
>>>> most theives are too lazy to try to figure out a way and
>>>> will move on to the
>>>> next target.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, the question I'm asking is:
>>>> Is there a way for OpenSim to check a viewer string and
>>>> allow or disallow
>>>> based on that, and if so please let me know where that code
>>>> is, and if
>>>> not... Then I'll be burning the midnight oil again coding
>>>> one up.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Karen Palen" <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: <opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:44 PM
>>>> Subject: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can
>>>> this be done?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > The short answer is no.
>>>> >
>>>> > The more complete answer is that you while can easily
>>>> detect some
>>>> > characteristic of a viewer (or other software) which
>>>> identifies that
>>>> > viewer and use that to ban it, nothing can stop the
>>>> authors of that viewer
>>>> > from changing whatever characteristic you use.
>>>> >
>>>> > Worse yet, whatever characteristic you select to
>>>> identify the "bad"
>>>> > software will inevitably turn up in some other
>>>> (innocent) viewer sooner or
>>>> > later and will cause them to be banned for no reason.
>>>> >
>>>> > The best you could hope to achieve is some sort of
>>>> "arms race" between
>>>> > "bad" viewer creators and sim operators.
>>>> >
>>>> > In addition any viewer could be adapted for piracy.
>>>> The original
>>>> > experiments that resulted in
>>>> libsecondlife/openMetaverse were based on
>>>> > analysing the data stream between the Second Life
>>>> Servers and the viewer
>>>> > software (at the time ONLY the Linden Labs viewer) and
>>>> had access to all
>>>> > of that information. This was all done without
>>>> modifying the viewer in any
>>>> > way - it was proprietary at the time.
>>>> >
>>>> > Sadly the lesson of the endless failures of DRM
>>>> schemes elsewhere shows
>>>> > that the real losers are the honest/innocent users who
>>>> are unable to do
>>>> > the things that they really should expect to do with
>>>> the content that they
>>>> > have purchased.
>>>> >
>>>> > For example, I have completely stopped buying anything
>>>> in Second Life
>>>> > since I want to use the inventory I buy in my private
>>>> sims as well. Sure I
>>>> > can use pirate tools to do this, but if I have to do
>>>> that to use my
>>>> > purchases where I want to use them then why not just
>>>> steal the stuff in
>>>> > the first place?
>>>> >
>>>> > This is very similar to the situation with music CDs
>>>> and DVDs, why build
>>>> > an expensive collection if you will just have to
>>>> re-purchase it in a few
>>>> > years for the next technology and some DRM scheme
>>>> tries to keep me from
>>>> > playing my collection on the new equipment?
>>>> >
>>>> > There are several efforts being directed at come sort
>>>> of "portable"
>>>> > content. I hope that one or more actually proves to
>>>> work, but I have no
>>>> > illusions about that actually happening any time
>>>> soon.
>>>> >
>>>> > My opinion is that the best we can do at present is
>>>> similar to the real
>>>> > life piracy situation: stop the commercial marketing
>>>> of pirated
>>>> > merchandise as it is detected and reported. Ban anyone
>>>> who engages in such
>>>> > activities and if they persist bring real world law
>>>> enforcement to bear.
>>>> >
>>>> > For once Linden Labs seems to be using a reasonable
>>>> version of this when
>>>> > they state that the viewer is not the problem, it is
>>>> the use of the
>>>> > viewer. They have promised to act promptly to ban
>>>> anyone using any viewer
>>>> > for piracy.
>>>> >
>>>> > Karen
>>>> >
>>>> > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Is it possible to stop
>>>> >> certain viewers from logging
>>>> >> in to your opensim? Like Cryo?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
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