[Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done?

Tue Jan 12 06:05:50 UTC 2010

My recollection is that it was due to a nasty bug on a particular grid. It was never a security thing, just a stopgap to keep things working until they fixed the problem.

Sadly idiots are a universal fact of life wherever you go. The only place I have seen them minimised is in remote island that you can only reach with your own sail boat. The idiots generally have killed themselves before they get that far. :-)

Karen
--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done?
> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:34 PM
> Mostly I want this because of piece
> of mind, but also because I am 
> considering compiling a viewer on Hippo code that will have
> a different 
> channel code altogether that I will probably use for the
> sim. If I can lock 
> off viewers that don't have my exact channel or code then I
> can be sure only 
> official viewers can get in. Right now the sim is only for
> friends but if I 
> open it up to more I wouldn't want idiots coming in and
> mucking about the 
> place. Which is why I was asking. I know that some opensim
> *shaking head* I 
> wish I could remember who and where banned certain viewers
> from logging in. 
> I'm not sure how she/he did it, though, but it got me
> curious as to how it's 
> done. That and I wouldn't really want someone using
> something like Cryo or 
> even Meerkat, but as you said... They probably all have the
> same default 
> code. But if I put in another code and compiled it off of
> hippo or Linden's 
> viewer I could put in my own channel and have others not
> able to enter. I 
> like security and peace of mind, but security in this day
> and age is a myth. 
> (Like those stupid broadcasting things that were supposed
> to stop copybot.)
> 
> But I was just curious if anyone had done it or heard of
> it. I want to say 
> openlifegrid did it, but I can't remember so I don't want
> to say for sure 
> until I find it again. (computer crashes suck.)
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karen Palen" <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
> To: <opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re:
> Can this be done?
> 
> 
> > As I think of it the answer is the same.
> >
> > The Linden Labs viewer does send an identification and
> version number, bat 
> > that really does very little. Almost every viewer out
> there is based on 
> > the current LL viewer and many people don't bother
> changing this code for 
> > their experimental versions.
> >
> > For example I just checked and I have a customised LL
> viewer where the 
> > only change is that it will log on to my private sim
> by default. The ID 
> > codes are identical to the original since I never
> bothered to change them.
> >
> > I use it to make sure that my private sim will run OK
> with the "official" 
> > viewer.
> >
> > I am not really sure why you would want that
> restriction though. Should I 
> > be considering that for my sim? Have I missed
> something here?
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers
> was Re: Can this be 
> >> done?
> >> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> >> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:05 PM
> >> I don't think anyone is
> >> understanding. :D It's not just Cryo. I want only
> >> Linden Lab viewers to be able to login. I've seen
> it done
> >> on other
> >> opensim's. I know people can get around that. But
> the point
> >> is... Not
> >> everyone is a coder. So, while they could compile
> and make
> >> it look like a
> >> Linden Lab viewer then so be it. I just want to
> know if
> >> there's a mod or
> >> string that I can put in to opensim to see what
> channel the
> >> viewer is
> >> sending, and if it's not the right one than to
> display an
> >> error message that
> >> would tell them to download an official release in
> order to
> >> login.
> >>
> >> Maybe I should have chosen my words better.
> Mentioning Cryo
> >> is like
> >> mentioning copybot, and responses only seem to be
> based on
> >> theft and copy
> >> protection. I just want to know if there's a
> string to
> >> block a viewer. I
> >> know people have done it I just can't remember
> what opensim
> >> I saw it done
> >> on. I also know that if I had Cryo source code I
> could
> >> compile and make it
> >> look like a Second Life release viewer. But not
> everyone is
> >> a hacker or a
> >> coder or both. Most people don't know how or can't
> compile
> >> a viewer or are
> >> too lazy to. So, they go look for one, and that's
> the basis
> >> for my thinking
> >> most theives are too lazy to try to figure out a
> way and
> >> will move on to the
> >> next target.
> >>
> >>
> >> So, the question I'm asking is:
> >> Is there a way for OpenSim to check a viewer
> string and
> >> allow or disallow
> >> based on that, and if so please let me know where
> that code
> >> is, and if
> >> not... Then I'll be burning the midnight oil again
> coding
> >> one up.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Karen Palen" <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
> >> To: <opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:44 PM
> >> Subject: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was
> Re: Can
> >> this be done?
> >>
> >>
> >> > The short answer is no.
> >> >
> >> > The more complete answer is that you while
> can easily
> >> detect some
> >> > characteristic of a viewer (or other
> software) which
> >> identifies that
> >> > viewer and use that to ban it, nothing can
> stop the
> >> authors of that viewer
> >> > from changing whatever characteristic you
> use.
> >> >
> >> > Worse yet, whatever characteristic you select
> to
> >> identify the "bad"
> >> > software will inevitably turn up in some
> other
> >> (innocent) viewer sooner or
> >> > later and will cause them to be banned for no
> reason.
> >> >
> >> > The best you could hope to achieve is some
> sort of
> >> "arms race" between
> >> > "bad" viewer creators and sim operators.
> >> >
> >> > In addition any viewer could be adapted for
> piracy.
> >> The original
> >> > experiments that resulted in
> >> libsecondlife/openMetaverse were based on
> >> > analysing the data stream between the Second
> Life
> >> Servers and the viewer
> >> > software (at the time ONLY the Linden Labs
> viewer) and
> >> had access to all
> >> > of that information. This was all done
> without
> >> modifying the viewer in any
> >> > way - it was proprietary at the time.
> >> >
> >> > Sadly the lesson of the endless failures of
> DRM
> >> schemes elsewhere shows
> >> > that the real losers are the honest/innocent
> users who
> >> are unable to do
> >> > the things that they really should expect to
> do with
> >> the content that they
> >> > have purchased.
> >> >
> >> > For example, I have completely stopped buying
> anything
> >> in Second Life
> >> > since I want to use the inventory I buy in my
> private
> >> sims as well. Sure I
> >> > can use pirate tools to do this, but if I
> have to do
> >> that to use my
> >> > purchases where I want to use them then why
> not just
> >> steal the stuff in
> >> > the first place?
> >> >
> >> > This is very similar to the situation with
> music CDs
> >> and DVDs, why build
> >> > an expensive collection if you will just have
> to
> >> re-purchase it in a few
> >> > years for the next technology and some DRM
> scheme
> >> tries to keep me from
> >> > playing my collection on the new equipment?
> >> >
> >> > There are several efforts being directed at
> come sort
> >> of "portable"
> >> > content. I hope that one or more actually
> proves to
> >> work, but I have no
> >> > illusions about that actually happening any
> time
> >> soon.
> >> >
> >> > My opinion is that the best we can do at
> present is
> >> similar to the real
> >> > life piracy situation: stop the commercial
> marketing
> >> of pirated
> >> > merchandise as it is detected and reported.
> Ban anyone
> >> who engages in such
> >> > activities and if they persist bring real
> world law
> >> enforcement to bear.
> >> >
> >> > For once Linden Labs seems to be using a
> reasonable
> >> version of this when
> >> > they state that the viewer is not the
> problem, it is
> >> the use of the
> >> > viewer. They have promised to act promptly to
> ban
> >> anyone using any viewer
> >> > for piracy.
> >> >
> >> > Karen
> >> >
> >> > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Is it possible to stop
> >> >> certain viewers from logging
> >> >> in to your opensim? Like Cryo?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >>
> >>
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