[Opensim-users] Microsoft issues patent promise, dispels Mono legal concerns

Wed Jul 15 01:50:17 UTC 2009

Microsoft Mono move means exactly nothing

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26224/1090/
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/osp-gpl.html

De Icaza announced that Mono will be split in half. *"In the next few months
we will be working towards splitting the jumbo Mono source code that
includes ECMA + A lot more into two separate source code distributions,"* he
explains, *"One will be ECMA, the other will contain our implementation of
ASP.NET, ADO.NET, Winforms and others."*

After all the talk that Mono was "harmless",  why the sudden awareness of
the risk?

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Frisby, Adam <adam at deepthink.com.au> wrote:

>  Oh lord.
>
>
>
> The point is quite simple –
>
> Mono is based on the EMCA 334/335 and ISO/IEC23270:2006 standards, those
> standards allow components within them to be patent, provided they are
> licensable under ‘RAND’ terms (Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory). The
> shadow hanging over Mono was that Microsoft could charge a “reasonable” sum
> for whatever components within that may be patented/[able].
>
>
>
> By putting EMCA 334/335 into the community pledge means Microsoft has
> waived the right to collect those terms (in whole.), the exceptions are
> components of C# which are not in the ECMA standards, these are – ASP.NET(* - although there is a Microsoft implementation in under the MSPL I
> believe, which voids the threat there[?]), ADO.NET (used for database
> access to MSSQL, etc), WinForms[?] and some components of the Microsoft.*
> namespace.
>
>
>
> Because of this – Mono have started separating their packages, so you can
> get a ‘clean’ version, and a ‘potentially has issues’ version (ie the
> version with ASP, ADO, etc). The good news is, OpenSim will run on the
> ‘clean’ version – the only exception to this will be the MSSQL adapter which
> relies on ADO.net – however given that anyone using that adapter will also
> be very likely using .NET, I don’t believe that is a problem.
>
>
>
> Ubuntu already ships a separated distribution of Mono which allows you to
> only optionally install the bits that aren’t covered by the patent pledge.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:
> opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *lamont cranston
> *Sent:* Sunday, 12 July 2009 11:04 AM
> *To:* opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-users] Microsoft issues patent promise, dispels
> Mono legal concerns
>
>
>
> Saying that it "clears up a bit of the FUD around Mono" seems counter
> intuitive. It would seem to have validated the claim that Mono relies on
> Microsoft patented technology. Microsoft seems to have just declared that it
> does.
>   Fact is not FUD.
> You don't need amnesty if you are innocent.
>
> I'm more interested in why Microsoft felt that this is a good idea? Mono is
> so far below the public relations radar that it is invisible to 99% of the
> public.
> What is in it for Microsoft to release this announcement at this time?
>
>  On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57 at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:13:40 -0700
> Kyle Hamilton <aerowolf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis<eekee57 at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:00:20 +0000
> > > Opensource Obscure <open at autistici.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> At a first glance this is good news for Opensim users and
> > >> developers that use Linux. I'd like to hear comments,
> > >> especially from free-software advocates.
> > >>
> > >> Microsoft issues patent promise, dispels Mono legal concerns
> > >> from Ars Technica - http://bit.ly/BasCG or
> > >>
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-issues-patent-promise-dispels-mono-concerns.ars
> > >
> > > Just wondering how binding this promise is. I guess MS couldn't break
> it without getting themselves bad press, but there's always a possibility of
> a company finding itself in a tight corner & thinking maybe it's worth
> breaking this. I find myself wondering if some, perhaps many big businesses
> are designed to run as if they're in a tight corner all the time.
> >
> >
> > I'm not a lawyer, but I've learned a lot from Groklaw. This is not
> > legal advice, simply my interpretation of what I've read :):
> >
> > The legal principle involved is called "estoppel" -- if you make a
> > promise not to sue someone for doing B, and then they in good faith
> > rely on that promise and do B, you can't go back on your word and sue
> > them for it anyway.  If the promise was made by the rightsholder (and
> > the fact that they issued it as a press release in written form), if
> > they try, they will have the court rule against them.  It's been this
> > way since before we had a legal system in the US, and imported
> > England's.
>
> Really good to know, thanks. :)
>
>
> >
> > (Technically, this is the same thing that a license is: you receive a
> > promise from the person who grants the license that they will not sue
> > you.  It doesn't matter if you pay for it or not.)
> >
> > This "promise" can be looked at as a "license" as far as CLR runtimes
> > go: if someone tries to create a functional CLR implementation, they
> > have a license to any necessary patent claims that Microsoft holds
> > that must be infringed in order to adhere to the standard.  This
> > license does not extend to non-CLR technologies, though.
> >
> > Again, IANAL.  Check with an IP lawyer if you want to.
>
> Strong enough reasoning for me. *nod*
>
>
> --
> Ethan Grammatikidis
>
> Those who are slower at parsing information must
> necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
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