[Opensim-users] Call to discussion: code environment [Was: recent secondlife client versions don't support OSSL functions]

Sat Sep 27 09:09:25 UTC 2008

I would assume that the client syntax check might be merely to intercept obvious, easily caught, errors and prevent an unnecessary roundtrip.

The server should never trust the client, and never the client the server.

'Scripts' as understood in the LL context are more run-time, c# modules et c are more compile-time.

One of the things with having an encapsulated run-time environment is the ability to package and transfer state and code between regions that does not necessarily need to trust each others. This becomes tricky with compiled counterparts, as the dll runtime environment implement trust on other levels.

So, 'scripts' are useful in some scenarios and use cases.
Best regards,Stefan AnderssonTribal Media AB Join the 3d web revolution : http://tribalnet.se/ 

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:21:54 -0700From: diva at metaverseink.comTo: opensim-users at lists.berlios.deSubject: Re: [Opensim-users] Call to discussion: code environment [Was: recent secondlife client versions don't support OSSL functions]
It may be annoying for experimentation, but it is possible that Linden Lab (r)/(tm) is doing this to start addressing the security issues of interoperability. Once we have (a) clients running in untrusted servers; and (b) servers running code sent by untrusted clients, all sorts of bad stuff can happen. Or it may be that they're just doing it to prevent LL viewer users from experiencing non-LL servers. Who knows.But the security issues are valid, whether that's LL's motivation or not. It all boils down to trust. One of these days opensim will have to start walking that slippery alley, and come up with a trust API for servers and clients. I think we have an opportunity to do this right. Trust is a people thing. Unlike the web, where people don't exist (only ghostly agents defined by IPs and, maybe, cookies), we have people here. So the policies can be specified at users' level. LL's static API checking seems a bit odd. It may make more sense to ask the user whether she trusts the region server.As for Stefan's idea of an aux client editor for code: have you tried Visual C#? It's great! hehe ;-)Seriously, my group here has been experimenting with all sorts of completely different clients to get/post all sorts of different things from/into the world. Once the Http server was made accessible to region modules, there's no limit to what can be done, really... But for this to scale beyond experimentation, we need to figure out trust.Stefan Andersson wrote: 

You know, we have options here; how would the perfect developer environment for opensim with a connected viewer look like? I definitively could see a tighter coupling to something like a file system or a revisioning-like system, so that I could just save a file, and that would trigger an recompilation and reload of that file as a script.that would go excellent with being able to diff and subversion code files; not to mention the ability to use other environments that the built-in editor to work with large codebases (hell, why wouldn't dll's just get sucked up and connected as well, if there's an IScript in them?) Or, should there just be an aux client editor that could post ascript like the client does? Just trying to get ye olde oute-of-the-boxe thinking going.Best regards,Stefan AnderssonTribal Media AB Join the 3d web revolution : http://tribalnet.se/ 

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:00:10 +0200From: DrScofield at xyzzyxyzzy.netTo: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de; opensim-users at lists.berlios.deSubject: [Opensim-users] heads up: recent secondlife client versions don't support OSSL functionshaving just wasted most of a day on trying to figure out why OSSL functions such as osSetDynamicTextureData and friends were returning an LSL compile error (ERROR: name not in scope) i thought i'd report back on my findings:

OSSL functions (inspite of the heavy changes in the scripting subsystem in recent days) are working just fine (provided you enabled them as documented in OpenSim.ini.example)
recent LindenLab(tm)/(r) provided secondlife clients (certainly the 1.21 series) are apparently no longer relying on the grid to vet the script and the functions it calls, but instead seem to check all function calls against

list of known LSL function
list of functions you have defined in your script

anything not found on those lists is flagged as "not in scope"once i switched to hippo viewer (http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/opensim-viewer/) everything was fine.    cheers,    dr scofield-- 
dr dirk husemann ---- virtual worlds research ---- ibm zurich research lab
SL: dr scofield ---- drscofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net ---- http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/
RL: hud at zurich.ibm.com - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/

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