<div dir="ltr"><div><div>I'll take a stab at this.<br><br>This mailing list is targeted primarily at developers (hence the name). I believe the target "customer" if you will is... developers and system administrators. There are developers who also provide end-user solutions but these solutions are generally not part of the OpenSimulator project. Such end-user solutions could be public or private grids or single-user solutions such as Sim on a Stick. For the most part, however, the collaborative activities of developers under the OpenSimulator umbrella are geared towards developing a common framework and the SL emulation application of this framework.<br><br></div>Anyone is free to offer suggestions and indeed these suggestions should be encouraged. On some occasions activity related to some suggestions can become disruptive and unproductive but for the most part it's ok. Offering suggestions is by no means any guarantee that they will be developed, in fact most are likely ignored. On some occasions suggestions are deemed of sufficient value to inspire development but this is the exception, not the norm. The best way to get one's suggestions implemented is to either implement them using one's own resources or pay a developer to do it. <br><br></div>As for documentation, help here is most welcome! :) Probably the best way would be to become a user and/or developer and set up a editing account on our wiki. Having a presence on our primafy IRC channels (<a href="http://irc.freenode.net">irc.freenode.net</a> #opensim and #opensim-dev) is a good way to get questions answered for developing expertise or creating documentation.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Drew Hart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:drewehart@gmail.com" target="_blank">drewehart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hello, all. I have been following this email thread for a long, long, long time. I am a psychologist, not a developer, though my day job is managing technology for a law firm - go figure that one out. Anyway, who is your audience. I write documentation for lawyers on how to use Word, etc., and would love to help write documentation but I lack developer knowledge to do that. If someone has a solution, perhaps a mentor or go-to person for questions, I am more than happy to dedicate a lot of time to documentation. But back to my original point. Who are you building this for? It seems to me that much of the discussion implies that only developers will be able to use Open Simulator. Novices, like me, won't. Earlier a house analogy was used. Well, I understand that Open Simulator is only meant to be the frame, but without default extras, without Diva Distros, etc., why would any non-developer get involved? I can't use Open Simulator as it is too advanced for me. But yet I am a customer of the service, if you will. Anyway, just my thoughts. This is part of the basics. Define your audience. Define your workers, contributors. Define your future goals based on those things...etc. Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Drew</div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Diva Canto <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com" target="_blank">diva@metaverseink.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div><tt>Given the enormous investment made
in SL viewers, as well as in the server-side OpenSimulator
plugins that support them, the default application behavior of
the OpenSimulator framework is going to be SL-ish in the
foreseeable future.</tt><tt> There will hopefully be several
improvements to the SL viewers made by the viewer developers
with collaboration from us, but these will still be SL viewers.
Maybe we can evolve them beyond recognition, but they will still
be SL viewers.<br>
<br>
Going beyond the default SL-ish application, someone needs to
develop 3d clients that are completely different. The
development of 3d clients, even SL viewers, is not part of the
OpenSimulator project itself; it may come from teams that
include some of the OpenSimulator core developers, but those are
different teams and different projects. It's 3rd-party
development, as far as the framework is concerned. (just like
Diva Wifi is 3rd party development, even though I'm a core
developer)<br>
<br>
The most the OpenSimulator framework can, and will, do is to
facilitate sharing of those alternative 3d applications. So if
you're developing a Web client for OpenSimulator, the necessary
server-side modules that you will certainly need to develop
should be easily installable in binary form by other people
running OpenSimulator. This can be made on your side so that
people need to pay you, if that's what it takes to get you
motivated. Ask me about it in the IRC if you want to know more
about this, but here's the gist of it:<br>
<a href="http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Developing_OpenSim_Addins" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Developing_OpenSim_Addins</a><br>
<br>
I have been quietly experimenting with paid licenses for these
OpenSimulator addons; I don't plan to get rich with this, but
I'm exploring the territory from a *technical* point of view, so
that others can eventually make money with their own ideas for
what virtual worlds should look like.<br>
<br>
It is very unlikely that the OpenSimulator project will absorb
those modules either as dlls or as part of the source code
(again, it's a framework, it should be as small as possible),
but we certainly encourage their development by providing a
mechanism that connects providers and consumers, for both paid
and free modules, open source or not.<br>
</tt><div><div><br>
On 8/17/2015 2:51 AM, M.E. Verhagen wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Well the compatibility is in these days just that
there are still viewers having the ability to login into
opensims as well as in SL. You cannot teleport from opensim to
SL, send im's, share inventory or something else. As I see it
the compatibly with SL is just wishful thinking of an opensource
opensim wanting to be compatible with a more and more closed
source SL.
<div>So that implicit means the core developers will have to do
diverge and lay out the things they want to develop. They will
longer be able to say let's reverse engineer that cool new
features LL has done. That will lead to a roadmap ... I hope.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>An yes it is just a prediction of how I think opensim will
look in 5 years time. For at least one thing is sure, opensim
will still be around in 5 years time :)<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-08-17 2:39 GMT+02:00 Shaun T.
Erickson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ste@smxy.org" target="_blank">ste@smxy.org</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I see
very little of that happening (except, maybe, the
forks). All these (non-core-dev) people writing to the
list, with their ideas of a road map and where it should
go, seem to forget that unless it tickles the
fancy/curiosity of a core developer, or helps their
bottom line, financially, or is submitted by someone
else willing to support it and the core devs think it's
useful and won't conflict with what they want to do, it
isn't happening. All you're doing is engaging in wishful
thinking.<br>
<br>
This is not a product, no matter how we might wish it
was. It's a research project, for some, and the core of
something that others make money from. Aside from bug
fixes (which they've always been happy to take, if done
properly), if it doesn't move either of those goals
forward, it's unlikely to happen.<br>
<br>
I'm not a developer (I'm a Systems Administrator), and I
most certainly do not speak for any of the developers.
They may disagree with my assessment, and I hope they
will not take offense at what I've said. My comments are
my own, based on hanging out with them for the past six
years, watching, learning and enjoying the use of what
they have produced (which is, to be fair, impressive, to
say the least). I might wish a lot of things were
different, but, you know what - they don't work for me
(which is good, because I know myself well enough to
know I'd be a terrible boss). I look forward to whatever
else they come up with, but I don't for a minute think
that anyone can tell them what they should or ought to
be doing (well, you can, but that doesn't mean they'll
listen).<br>
<br>
I do think there's two direct ways you can influence
things though - 1) write 3rd party modules to add
functionality you want or that changes/overrides
existing behavior. As long as you stick to the core
framework, so that your module will work with core
OpenSim, you have free reign to do whatever you want,
and 2) as some have done, pay someone to implement/fix
what you want.<br>
<br>
I suppose there is a third way - fork it and do whatever
you and other like-minded folks want to. But this has
been tried before, with only a modicum of success. It
*can* be done, but it's a tough row to hoe.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-ste</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On 8/16/15 7:44 PM, M.E. Verhagen wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In 5 years time I see ...<br>
opensim having it's own viewers<br>
There will be no compatibility left with SL<br>
It will have compatibility with other virtual
worlds :)<br>
The core will be relative bug free<br>
There will be a decent road map<br>
Opensim will be the apache of the virtual worlds.<br>
There will be many forks of opensim.<br>
There will be providers offering opensim with a
one click install<br>
Gadgets like the hmd devices and 3D cams will
change the virtual<br>
landscape forever. Opensim will adopt these
changes and thrive on it.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Opensim-dev mailing list
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a>
<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>