<div dir="ltr">It would seem Moses is trying to help with the code.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Dahlia Trimble <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dahliatrimble@gmail.com" target="_blank">dahliatrimble@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">If anyone here is willing to help with maintaining ever increasingly complex code and supporting users, feel free to chip in. Talk is cheap.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Frank Nichols <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:j.frank.nichols@gmail.com" target="_blank">j.frank.nichols@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><div><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Then basically we can never diverge away from SL since any divergence is going to break existing scripts that require compatibility. </div><div><br></div><div>If we don't bite the bullet and make the changes, i do believe OS will (has?) stagnate. It seems every time outside resources try to make changes and help we end up back at the argument that too much legacy code will have to be rewritten. I suggest that we "fork" core, in essence. By this i mean we have a switch in core, SL COMPATIBILITY MODE. switch equals true and it runs the code as it is, switch equals FALSE and it runs a new code base with changes. Default can be true. I then suggest we focus future development on the new branch that is not compatible.</div><div><br></div><div>Frank <br><br>Sent from my iPad Air 2</div><div><div><div><br>On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:00 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sethnygard@gmail.com" target="_blank">sethnygard@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics. It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.<br><br></div>What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs. How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file. This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.<br><br></div>-Seth<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-request@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-request@opensimulator.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)<br>
2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)<br>
3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400<br>
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAF5=<a href="mailto:rqV4dQqj%2Bxm1qYMWF7Raq3Pmim-VTc-Uu14GrBvB65iSDQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">rqV4dQqj+xm1qYMWF7Raq3Pmim-VTc-Uu14GrBvB65iSDQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white<br>
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I<br>
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make<br>
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes<br>
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us<br>
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <<br>
<a href="mailto:douglas.maxwell3.civ@mail.mil" target="_blank">douglas.maxwell3.civ@mail.mil</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<br>
> Caveats: NONE<br>
><br>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch should still<br>
> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance<br>
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this<br>
> done -<br>
> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.<br>
><br>
> v/r -douglas<br>
><br>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME<br>
> Science and Technology Manager<br>
> Virtual World Strategic Applications<br>
> U.S. Army Research Lab<br>
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)<br>
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Emory<br>
> Cerquoni<br>
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted<br>
><br>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,<br>
> thanks<br>
> guys!<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <<a href="mailto:mheilman@ist.ucf.edu" target="_blank">mheilman@ist.ucf.edu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Opensim Devs<br>
><br>
> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from<br>
> project<br>
> MOSES. Thanks.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Michael Heilmann<br>
> Research Associate<br>
> Institute for Simulation and Training<br>
> University of Central Florida<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> <blockedhttp://<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
><br>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<br>
> Caveats: NONE<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400<br>
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAF5=<a href="mailto:rqUbLu5RL6EBMt0PgdntwYod92aUHLeNnfZJCaKH8xvYdA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">rqUbLu5RL6EBMt0PgdntwYod92aUHLeNnfZJCaKH8xvYdA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display<br>
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using<br>
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,<br>
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to<br>
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the<br>
project as a whole.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <<br>
<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the<br>
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later<br>
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to<br>
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before<br>
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this<br>
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <<br>
> <a href="mailto:douglas.maxwell3.civ@mail.mil" target="_blank">douglas.maxwell3.civ@mail.mil</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<br>
>> Caveats: NONE<br>
>><br>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch should<br>
>> still<br>
>> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance<br>
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this<br>
>> done -<br>
>> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.<br>
>><br>
>> v/r -douglas<br>
>><br>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME<br>
>> Science and Technology Manager<br>
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications<br>
>> U.S. Army Research Lab<br>
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)<br>
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Emory<br>
>> Cerquoni<br>
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted<br>
>><br>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,<br>
>> thanks<br>
>> guys!<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <<a href="mailto:mheilman@ist.ucf.edu" target="_blank">mheilman@ist.ucf.edu</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Opensim Devs<br>
>><br>
>> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from<br>
>> project<br>
>> MOSES. Thanks.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Michael Heilmann<br>
>> Research Associate<br>
>> Institute for Simulation and Training<br>
>> University of Central Florida<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
>> <blockedhttp://<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
>><br>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<br>
>> Caveats: NONE<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400<br>
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=<a href="mailto:mDpTA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">mDpTA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual<br>
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so<br>
much? Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be<br>
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing<br>
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is<br>
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak<br>
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support<br>
teams. To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor<br>
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they<br>
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of<br>
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to<br>
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at<br>
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important<br>
otherwise.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <<br>
<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display<br>
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using<br>
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,<br>
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to<br>
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the<br>
> project as a whole.<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <<br>
> <a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the<br>
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later<br>
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to<br>
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before<br>
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this<br>
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!<br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:douglas.maxwell3.civ@mail.mil" target="_blank">douglas.maxwell3.civ@mail.mil</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<br>
>>> Caveats: NONE<br>
>>><br>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch should<br>
>>> still<br>
>>> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance<br>
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this<br>
>>> done -<br>
>>> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.<br>
>>><br>
>>> v/r -douglas<br>
>>><br>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME<br>
>>> Science and Technology Manager<br>
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications<br>
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab<br>
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)<br>
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@opensimulator.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael<br>
>>> Emory<br>
>>> Cerquoni<br>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM<br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted<br>
>>><br>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,<br>
>>> thanks<br>
>>> guys!<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <<a href="mailto:mheilman@ist.ucf.edu" target="_blank">mheilman@ist.ucf.edu</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Opensim Devs<br>
>>><br>
>>> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from<br>
>>> project<br>
>>> MOSES. Thanks.<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Michael Heilmann<br>
>>> Research Associate<br>
>>> Institute for Simulation and Training<br>
>>> University of Central Florida<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
>>> <blockedhttp://<a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>><br>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
>>><br>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED<br>
>>> Caveats: NONE<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
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End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34<br>
*******************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div>Michael Emory Cerquoni</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Opensim-dev mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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