<p dir="ltr">There has been attempts to finish vehicle boarder crossing, the next step being to transfer the current vehicle state to the next simulator. Each time it is side tracked by the desire for the Avination code to fit our code base in this regard. From what I understand there is a backlog of work required to bring it over and only a hand full of people with the non-disclosure to complete this work. If this desire was given up it may very well free up someone's hands to complete the work in their own way.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 16, 2014 12:45 PM, "Frank Nichols" <<a href="mailto:j.frank.nichols@gmail.com">j.frank.nichols@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you - the comments are very interesting and while I was aware of the security concerns, I didn't realise that was a big part of the hold up. I assumed security issues would be the equivalent of walking across a border.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Diva Canto <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com" target="_blank">diva@metaverseink.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><tt>I'm sure vehicle border crossings
are important for some situations. </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>For me, they got a lot less important now that OpenSim
supports variable-sized regions. There are also alternatives
(co-simulation) to moving vehicles along very large areas that
are able to avoid crossing borders altogether, therefore
avoiding the "bumps" on borders and the extra load that moving
vehicles and crossing borders entail. These 2 things (varregions
and co-simulation) don't exist in SL, but they're superior in
some respects, because they avoid crossing borders altogether;
it's much smoother, keeps the load down, and avoids running into
security issues.</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>Here's a video showing a large-scale traffic
co-simulation:</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=291yE_9eefU#t=4m02s" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=291yE_9eefU#t=4m02s</a></tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>Co-simulation means that one simulator has part of the
objects, in this case the vehicles, and the other simulators
have the rest of the scene objects. The vehicles never cross
borders, even though they move along very large distances (in
this case, 3km x 1.5km).</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>I talked about how to do this at OSCC'13. </tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>This is not to say that I don't support adding proper
vehicle border crossing support to OpenSim, if someone cares to
do it. +1!</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt><tt>But I would never trade the borderless way of moving
vehicles for the SL's way of moving vehicles</tt>, so vehicle
border crossings has been very low priority for me, personally.
</tt><tt>One of the perks of reimplementing the server-side is
that we can do things that can't be done in SL!<br>
</tt><div><div><tt>
</tt><tt><br>
</tt><tt>
</tt><br>
<br>
On 6/16/2014 7:10 AM, Frank Nichols wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I guess no one cares about region border crossings
...
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Frank
Nichols <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:j.frank.nichols@gmail.com" target="_blank">j.frank.nichols@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Maybe someone can answer this - I am aware of
NPVs but have never used them. I am pretty sure than as of
a year ago you could not be seated and do a region border
crossing, however a lot of work has gone into OS in that
area in the past 6 months and it may be possible now.<span><font color="#888888">
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Frank</div>
</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 1:22
AM, Mike Higgins <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mike@kayaker.net" target="_blank">mike@kayaker.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">All
very good questions, but there is a fundamental
assumption that all vehicles are physical.<br>
1. Can non-physical vehicles (NPVs) cross sim
borders?<br>
  An NPV is a non physical object that uses
llSetPos, llSetPrimParams,
llSetLinkPrimParamsFast(LINK_THIS,[PRIM_POSITION....])
or llSetKeyframedMotion to move across a SIM
boundary.<br>
  On some grids, NPVs cross SIM borders just
like physical vehicles.<br>
2. Can NPVs cross SIM borders with an avatar
sitting on them?<br>
3. Can NPVs cross SIM borders WITHOUT an avatar
sitting on them? (for example a ferryboat that
makes regular runs from one SIM to another, and
keeps making the rounds even when empty).
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On 6/13/14 10:58 PM, Frank Nichols wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
OS is now 7 years old and the fundamental
feature of crossing from one region to
another while riding on or in a physical
vehicle is not working. I, and most of the
community, are aware that there are partial
implementations being worked on, and at
least one grid has an implementation similar
in functionality to SL - but that
implementation is not yet available to the
OpenSim community in general.<br>
<br>
Obviously, if it were easy to implement it
would be done - it may well be impossible to
implement...<br>
<br>
PVC below stands for physical vehicle
crossings between regions with avatar(s)
riding the vehicle(s).<br>
<br>
1. Is PVC a desirable feature - does the
OpenSim community want to be able to ride
physical vehicles while crossing region
borders? With the implementation of
var-regions, crossings are less of a
necessary feature - however, a smooth or
bump-less crossing combined with variable
sized regions would give grid designers a
lot of flexibility.<br>
<br>
2. What features would be expected of a
solution?<br>
<br>
a. Bump-less region crossings - ie. unlike
SL or other implementations, bump-less
region crossings would be a desirable
feature. I would prefer that region
crossings be bump-less - this means to me
that there is no movement shuddering visible
while crossing, all scripts transfer their
running state smoothly, and sounds would
continue to play smoothly. A person
observing their avatar cross from one region
to another would not be able to see/detect
any sign that a crossing has just taken
place except a script reporting which region
it is running in would suddenly begin
reporting that it is in the destination
region.<br>
    <br>
b. Should PVC be required to work on all
physics engines mainly ODE and BulletSim at
this time. My feeling is that I would be
happy if PVC only worked on BulletSim. I
understand that many people still use/prefer
ODE - but if PVC only worked on BulletSim
(initially) I would feel that would be a
good step, and then if there is a demand
from the community and someone available to
do the work, it could possibly be ported to
ODE.<br>
<br>
c. Would it be necessary to be able to cross
between regions running different physics
engines? In other words, would the community
expect a physical vehicle to be able to
cross from a region running ODE into a
region running BulletSim?<br>
<br>
d. Would a “bumpy†crossing between regions
running different physics engines be
acceptable with a smooth crossing only being
available if both the starting and
destination regions were running BulletSim.<br>
<br>
e. Would Scripts need to cross smoothly
between starting and ending regions - or
would a script restart/recompile be
acceptable? What would be acceptable
behavior if the configuration of the
destination region is different than the
starting region concerning scripts. I expect
the scripts to stop running and report an
error?<br>
<br>
f. Would a physical vehicle size restriction
for PVC be acceptable? What would be the
expected result of a “train†(linked set of
“train cars†populated with avatars)
crossing? Again, I think this should be
smooth and bump-less assuming the starting
region and destination region meet some
criteria.<br>
<br>
g. What would be acceptable behavior if a
PVC is attempted between regions with
differing physical link set limitations -
such as number of prims, size of physical
prims, etc. Would the vehicle be denied
access to the destination region if it’s
construction exceeded destination region
limits?<br>
<br>
g. What is the expected behavior for PVCs
concerning permissions of the vehicle
entering and/or leaving regions.For example,
would the vehicle flying over a region have
the same expectations for access permissions
that a avatar flying over a restricted
parcel would have?<br>
<br>
h. What would be the expectations around
PVCs and HyperGrid? Would the community
want/expect a physical vehicle to be able to
be ridden to a different grid via hyper grid
technology. If so, would it be required to
work in any combinations of hosting hardware
(linux, windows, osx, etc)?<br>
<br>
i. Should vehicles be able to be ridden
while teleporting? Should such teleports be
able to teleport within a region as well as
between two regions on the same or different
grids?<br>
<br>
j. Are there expectations concerning the
altitude a PVC can take place? Submarines?
Aircraft? Sub-terrain Tunnels?<br>
<br>
k. Obviously we would all like our favorite
client to support the PVC, but would
humpless HG enabled PVC be acceptable if was
initially supported by a single popular
client? Obviously the implementation would
have to be OpenSource and licensed according
to OS requirements, so other clients/viewers
would be able to add support at their
desecration.<br>
<br>
What other features or capabilities would
you like to see? Personally, I would like to
see capabilities beyond what SL supports -
what about you? Is Sl compatibility a
requirement for PVC? OS is 7 years old, I
believe it is time to look forward to what
the community wants, and not continue to
just “keep up with SLâ€. Hyper-grid is an
excellent example of OS taking the lead -
maybe it is time for PVC to take the lead
also.<br>
<br>
Let me be clear I have nothing but
admiration for the OS developers. I am not
complaining about that they have done. I am
amazed at the outstanding work they have
done and the feature set they have provided
to us. My discussion here, is an attempt to
determine if there is a desire for PVC, or
if the OS community finds the current state
of region crossings to be acceptable.<br>
<br>
Let me also be clear also that I understand
the features mentioned above may not even be
possible - that is not what I am interested
in, I want to know what would the community
want a PVC implementation to look like if
their dreams could come true.<br>
<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
Frank Nichols<br>
</div>
</div>
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