<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Thanks for your help here, I will check out these connectors, and assess the work involved. <div><br></div><div>From my perspective the web interface and authentication are critical; the two most significant aspects that impact upon my plans. I guess there is a problem in having the development resources to update the web interface. The other major issue mentioned by every organisation I have spoken to is security - but I know you intend to address this.</div><div><br></div><div>I can appreciate Mic's concern though as changes to the architecture and interfaces are especially expensive in development time - not a demand but it is a significant issue.</div><div>Are some aspects of the interface more settled than others? I appreciate that this is a judgement call.</div><div><br></div><div>Mic do you know who else is doing work on PHP/Web Services?<br><div><div><br></div><div>Thanks once again.</div><div>Tom</div><div><br><div><div>On 5 Jan 2010, at 15:20, <a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com">diva@metaverseink.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>In my experience, no project is, or should be, 'stable' until it reaches <br>1.0. Before 1.0 people programming against the core code do it at their <br>own peril, and should not complain. It's completely unrealistic to <br>demand interface stability during early stages, and it's actually quite <br>harmful -- stabilizing on bad design is the worst that can happen to a <br>project. Even after 1.0, interfaces change. Just to point one among many <br>examples that I know first hand: Apache Lucene, changed dramatically <br>from 1.x to 2.0.<br><br>So I'm not sure what to tell you. Will the interfaces change? Most <br>likely. Will the pace of changes slow down over time? Definitely. When <br>is a good time for people to extend OpenSim 'safely'? Not before 1.0.<br><br><br>Mic Bowman wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Do you expect those formalized interfaces to remain stable long enough <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to warrant the effort to create alternative implementations? Others have <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">provided alternative implementations in the past that quickly became <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">obsolete.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--mic<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:17 PM, <<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com">diva@metaverseink.com</a> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com">mailto:diva@metaverseink.com</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Putting PHP in front of the DBs is one of the most natural things to do<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> from here on -- not just the things that Wiredux does, but for a lot<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> more! In fact, the entire collection of OpenSim.Services that are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> provided as reference implementations can be replaced with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> implementations in Apache+PHP.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Calls from the simulators to the services are now all neatly packaged in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> OpenSim.Services.Connectors (these are the "out" connectors). Just<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> browse through those connectors and check out the wire protocols, then<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> do the receiving end in PHP. Many of them are using standard web forms,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> others use XMLRPC, others use custom-made HTTP-based dialects.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Calls from outside to the simulators are packaged in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> OpenSim.Server.Handlers. Again, check them out and, if not using .NET,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> write your own client for them. If using .NET/mono you can import the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> DLL OpenSim.Connectors.dll, and reuse the existing connectors as-is.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> But that's not all. Since now the interactions between the simulators<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> and the resource services are all formalized in interfaces<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> (OpenSim.Services.Interfaces), and the handlers and connectors in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> simulator are loaded dynamically, you can replace the connectors and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> handlers themselves. In other words, if you want OpenSim to talk web<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> services, roll your own Web Services handlers and connectors under those<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> interfaces, and you're done -- you'll have to use .NET for this part,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> though.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Tom Willans wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">First thanks for all your work.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I assume from this that the webredux will no longer work without<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">modification and will need updating. ( Thanks again here).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Is there any information about the new authentication approach<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> anywhere,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">if not in detail then an overview. Is LDAP on the horizon?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I am mostly interested in linking php based frontends to opensim and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hence accessing the database directly. Particularly relevant is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> moving<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">away from using UUIDs.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Please forgive me if I am missing something but I assume there are no<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">web-services that can be called and calling C# from php is not a very<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">good solution.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tom<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 5 Jan 2010, at 10:37, Ai Austin wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">At 18:32 04/01/2010, <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de">mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de">mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de">mailto:opensim-dev-request@lists.berlios.de</a>>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To be honest, I don't think Sqlite should be a database type<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> that we<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(OpenSim) should keep alive in the project,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">It is useful to have a double click and go out of the box solution<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">which people can try out and test with.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">One other use of SQLite that I am aware of and fine very useful is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">for the really simple and handy single region hosted on your own<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">system that is connected to the New World Grid for any avatar using<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the "New World Studio" packaged version of Opensim. See<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.newworldgrid.com/lang/en-us/land/free-land">http://www.newworldgrid.com/lang/en-us/land/free-land</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Opensim-dev mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Tom Willans<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Managing Director<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Bessacarr Publications Ltd<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">3 Highfield, Hatton Park, Warwick, CV35 7TQ<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">tom.willans@bessacarr.com <<a href="mailto:tom.willans@bessacarr.com">mailto:tom.willans@bessacarr.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <<a href="mailto:tom.willans@bessacarr.com">mailto:tom.willans@bessacarr.com</a> <<a href="mailto:tom.willans@bessacarr.com">mailto:tom.willans@bessacarr.com</a>>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">+44 (0) 1926 402055 +44 (0) 121 288 0281<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Registered in England and Wales at the above address. 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