Kyle tells it like it is :)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Kyle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:create@reactiongrid.com">create@reactiongrid.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I would like to thank the Opensim developers for producing an
amazingly stable Alpha in a couple of years sans millions or even thousands of
$$ of critically needed capital that most development teams have for such a
large project. Some people feel the core developers and other testers,
builders etc have not done enough to further the project in certain areas and
yet this is exactly why the developers are so concerned with building a
platform for solutions for you to build upon, not a solution in itself.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Why did they choose this path of pluggable architecture and not
deliver a solution in their vision? Because they have a vision bigger
than that, they envision a community rallying around their hard work on the
core of this system who add in their own needed elements on top of the base
being created. To complain that you have not made a profit from the hard
work of the volunteer developers shows a distinct lack of appreciation and a
lack of personal motivation to get things done as an individual working with a
larger group.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I myself experiment with Unity3D to handle some things OpenSim
does not focus on. However the magic of Opensim, easy user created
content, is no trivial matter to recreate elsewhere. Most do not
understand the difficult architecture of building a real-time, user created
system. To make any other platform do this aspect is no trivial task
which is why Opensim is the only alternative out there to SL (same company that
promised an opensource server).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">So if you are leaving because an extensible platform that took
years for volunteers to get has not catered to your specific needs then you missed
the point of community. IBM has not left Opensim I talk to them regularly
and they are extremely motivated to see this project succeed. In fact
those leaving are missing 2010, which I feel is going to be a banner year for
Opensim.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">While I understand the frustration of the lack of features vs SL
and others I also understand the magic of, for example, a teacher and
student building concepts together with easy to use, affordable tools. This
community has given freely and I for one bow in respect to these gracious,
giving and dedicated developers and testers and understand the incredibly
complex job they face. Kudos Opensim we are with you for the long term….</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Len Brown<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 23, 2009 9:14 AM</span></p><div class="im"><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] Leaving Project</div><p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">If the goal of OpenSim is to be
incompatible with everyone elses vision then I too have little further interest
in the project.</p><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
I'd hoped after IBM dropped OpenSim like a hot potato that the devs would
realize the err of their ways and come round to a manageable and collaborative
progression from then on, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.<br>
<br>
If the goal of OpenSim is to be "something different" but without any
aim towards mass acceptance and compatibility than I too feel my time is
wasted. I have spent 8 to 12 hours a day for many weeks tediously copying
hundreds of items from my stores and shops in Second Life to my private
home-hosted OpenSim regions foolishly believing that they will remain
compatible through OpenSim's future progression and that I could in turn share
a good portion of my work with others since my desire for investment has been
repeatedly turned down.<br>
<br>
I wish you all the best on your path.<br>
<br>
- Len W. Brown<br>
<a href="mailto:lenwbrown@gmail.com" target="_blank">lenwbrown@gmail.com</a>
</div></div><p></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:31 AM, J Ross Nicoll <<a href="mailto:jrn2005@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk" target="_blank">jrn2005@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the point about OpenSim not being Second Life needs
to be expanded to point out there are things attempting to be more of a
complete solution. realXtend ( <a href="http://www.realxtend.org/" target="_blank">http://www.realxtend.org/</a> ), Reaction Grid ( <a href="http://www.reactiongrid.com/" target="_blank">http://www.reactiongrid.com/</a>
) and SpotON3D ( <a href="https://spoton3d.com/" target="_blank">https://spoton3d.com/</a>
) all spring to mind here.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In terms of configuration, are you aware you can edit the
Wiki yourself? You'll need to create an account and be logged in, then you
should see an "Edit" link at the top of the page.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In terms of donating money... the problem is a lack of a
clear organisation to pay. However, I suspect a few people will do coding for
hire if you have a specific feature request or bug fix wanted (Justin
Clark-Casey <a href="http://justincc.org/blog/hire-me/" target="_blank">http://justincc.org/blog/hire-me/</a>
being the most likely candidate). Try e-mailing the mailing list asking for a
quote for a specific problem you're having to be fixed?</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 23 Nov 2009, at 13:06, Len Brown wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Rock,<br>
<br>
I sympathize with you on many levels. I've also
had my doubts regarding the future of OpenSim, but I have also maintained some
degree of faith that things will pull through in the end.<br>
<br>
For me the shock came when I was abruptly informed
that "OpenSim is not Second Life, is not intended to be like Second Life,
nor ever will." I still haven't the foggiest idea what this
developer had smoked for them to so strongly assert that incredibly false
statement.<br>
<br>
For me, the enjoyment of OpenSim has come from my
intense devotion to building and skinning. In fact, for the last few
months I've been working on a full region that has many hundreds of skins,
clothes, hair, furniture, etc, etc, that I'd like to package up as an OAR and give
out freely, since repeatedly I've been told that instead of giving money to
help further OpenSim I'd do more proactively by giving content. So I plan
to do just that and give my money to other open source initiatives that matter
to me.<br>
<br>
I have a passion for writing, and have thought many
times that one of the greatest powers OpenSim would gain is having simple,
straightforward, step-by-step instructions on how to download, compile,
install, administer and overall just plain operate the core applications.
What kills me is that everyone who does a search for OpenSim inevitably hits
the <a href="http://opensimulator.org/" target="_blank">opensimulator.org</a>
site and that is where the massive roadblock presents itself. It's
useless for most and irrelevant to the few who consider themselves OpenSim
experts.<br>
<br>
Heck, even now on the configuration page it still
displays info for 0.6.6 including (months old) known bugs in setting up region
xml files. If there was appointed a volunteer whose sole job was to keep
information on <a href="http://opensimulator.org/" target="_blank">opensimulator.org</a>
relevant that one task would resolve a mountain of negativity right
there. I sit here in front of my computers a good 10 to 12 hours a day.<br>
<br>
I would sincerely love to contribute to the OpenSim
project, especially in documentation support. But the thing holding me
back is communication. If I cannot get a straight answer on who to GIVE
money to in order to help, then I stand little chance of getting clear,
straight answers from developers when asking about issues I need to consider
and incorporate in documentation.<br>
<br>
If communication is a hurdle we can all overcome, with
a genuine and heart-felt effort to relay information, motives, and plans with
one another, then I'd sincerely appreciate having the opportunity to personally
contribute. I'm not a programmer today, but have a degree in programming
fro the 90's (so much has changed my degree is practically useless in that
regard). But I do know how to explain things and relay information in
simple terms. But only if my own questions will be answered with more
than "look it up or figure it out yourself" as my answer.<br>
<br>
If any of you would appreciate my help, feel free to
let me know at any time and I'll do what I can.<br>
<br>
- Len W. Brown<br>
<a href="mailto:lenwbrown@gmail.com" target="_blank">lenwbrown@gmail.com</a></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Colin B. Withers <<a href="mailto:Colin.Withers@eumetsat.int" target="_blank">Colin.Withers@eumetsat.int</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi guys,<br>
<br>
I have decided to leave the Opensim project. You will probably not even notice
if I leave, as not being a programmer my only inputs were the writing of the
step-by-step tutorials ( <a href="http://chapter-and-metaverse.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://chapter-and-metaverse.blogspot.com/</a> ), the drafts of
the OpenSim User Manual on the Forge, and helping out in the IRC channels, for
newcomers.<br>
<br>
You may find my reasons for leaving Opensim interesting though (and please do
not construe any of my reasons as an attack on anyone).<br>
<br>
1. The Platform<br>
I raised this several times in the past in IRC, and made posts on my blog about
the product lifecycle of the platform ( <a href="http://rock-vacirca.blogspot.com/2009/02/direction-of-virtual-worlds.html" target="_blank">http://rock-vacirca.blogspot.com/2009/02/direction-of-virtual-worlds.html</a>
). I believe that the platforms underpinning both Second Life and Opensim are
quite long in the tooth now, and I questioned how much product lifecycle there
was left, particularly given that Opensim is now nearing 3 years of
development, is still in Alpha, and if the current release of 0.6.7 is any
indicator, then still only around two thirds into the development cycle. With
the (inevitable) coming of much superior platforms, such as Blue Mars and (as a
virtual world); Unity, for browser-based Virtual Wolrds; and now UDK (for
creating sandboxes, standalones, and open grids), then I fear that Opensim has
missed the boat as far as the remaining lifecycle of the platform is concerned.
When you show people what is possible with these engines (for example this
avatar editor for the forthcom<br>
ing APB (using the Unreal Engine): <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icR3LtEMvZI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icR3LtEMvZI</a>
or this city: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLzNbPXMDg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLzNbPXMDg</a> (using the
CryEngine), then neither SL not Opensim stands comparison.<br>
<br>
2. Lack of Support for Currency in Opensim<br>
I felt the impact of this when I first made the switch from SL to Opensim. I
had a thriving RP sim in SL (over 50 people, mainly female) and they all agreed
to follow me over to my Opensim and the OSGrid. However, within a month they
had all left, citing the same reason, the lack of places to shop, to buy the
quality stuff they wanted (skins, hair, clothes etc), as a quality appearance,
and the fun of shopping is what all the females placed high on their
requirements from a Virtual World. They drifted back to Second Life, and the
guys followed them. I have always believed that the lack of support for
currency in the core was a mistake, but that is just my opinion.<br>
<br>
3. Marketing<br>
I have also raised this issue several times, and blogged about it. It is far
from clear just who an eventually released Opensim is actually aimed at. I
think that any company that is interested in a firewalled corporate solution to
collaboration and prototyping will already be looking at the Enterprise solution
that is currently available from Second Life; that any indie group that is
thinking of running a themed grid will need an economy to stay viable; and any
individual who is looking for a private sandbox solution for their SL work will
need full compatibility (which is not the case with the OS version of LSL
diverging from the SL LSL). So, just who is the platform aimed at? I was also
very disappointed in the view of one of the core devs who said that 'marketing
is a null concept for us'.<br>
<br>
I am currently designing and creating cities for Blue Mars, and involved in a
team for proving the UDK as a platform for the design and creation of Virtual
Worlds (as opposed to purely games), and with so much documentation available
for these mature engines (particularly for the UDK, Blue Mars lags behind
somewhat in that department, but have hired extra staff to put that right), I
am achieving the productivity I want, building the worlds that I want, with
stable crash-free platforms.<br>
<br>
However, I do wish the Opensim team the very best in their endeavours, and I
sincerely hope their goals are eventually achieved.<br>
<br>
If anyone would like to take over the Opensim Tutorials pages at <a href="http://chapter-and-metaverse.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://chapter-and-metaverse.blogspot.com/</a>
and <a href="http://chapter-and-metaverse2.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://chapter-and-metaverse2.blogspot.com/</a>
(they will need some updating following several changes) then I am more than
willing to pass the posts over, and of course the Opensim User Manual is there
in the Forge for anyone to develop further.<br>
<br>
Best Regards and Good Luck<br>
<br>
Rock<br>
<br>
<br>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">---</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Please CC all MMS related e-mails to <a href="mailto:fixit-mms@st-andrews.ac.uk" target="_blank">fixit-mms@st-andrews.ac.uk</a>.<br>
<br>
The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland: No<br>
SC013532.</span></p>
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