<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Well my vote is that the new protocol is documented before it goes into trunk. There is no reason that the protocol can't be designed before it is implemented.<br><br>But anyway if its not documented then my vote would be -1 on it going into trunk. Even if it was a optional extra, it would still lead to confusion and disruption among other things.<br><br>Something as big as a new protocol does need some design rather than just flying into implementing it and seeing how it turns out. <br><br>So I believe it is either designed and that plan is published on the mailing list/wiki and then after a review, work can start on implementing it or it goes into a branch and then after it is finished, it can be documented and then a review of it is carried out before it is decided if it goes into trunk.<br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie
<i><melanie@t-data.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Melanie <melanie@t-data.com><br>Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br>To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<br>Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 11:42 PM<br><br><div class="plainMail">It doesn't need to be segregated. This can be done in trunk <br>perfectly well. We have had bad experiences with branches and I <br>believe there is a general aversion to them now.<br><br>There is no need to push this outside of the core scope, especially <br>since it's already well underway. This whole discussion has been <br>totally sidetracked, questioning the project as a whole, a project <br>that has won great acclaim from my fellow core members and was, <br>among others, called "long overdue" and "badly needed".<br><br>This entire thread came from me
trying to ascertain the fundamental <br>willingness to remove the monolithic servers _at some point_.<br><br>Melanie<br><br><br>Gryc Ueusp wrote:<br>> This is what branches are for.<br>> <br>> Melanie wrote:<br>>> This can not be reasonably done on the forge..<br>>><br>>> Melanie<br>>><br>>> Charles Krinke wrote:<br>>> <br>>>> Sounds like a good argument to put this new work on the forge.<br>>>><br>>>> That way, we can get it wrung out, completed, functional, tested. <br>>>><br>>>> This seems to me a reasonable and proper way to change the underlying grid servers without having a revolution in mid-air.<br>>>><br>>>> Charles<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> ________________________________<br>>>> From: Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com"
href="/mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>><br>>>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" href="/mc/compose?to=opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:51:39 PM<br>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br>>>><br>>>> Which is precisely what is intended. But the old dinosaur servers <br>>>> are in the way.<br>>>><br>>>> You can rest assured no grids will be harmed in the making of these <br>>>> servers - to paraphrase the movie industry....<br>>>><br>>>> Melanie<br>>>><br>>>> Charles Krinke wrote:<br>>>> <br>>>>> I believe it is pretty important to ensure that we go forwards in a compatible manner and not
backwards.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Certainly new implementations of servers, executables, protocols and the like are encouraged, but we also need to make sure that everything continues to work.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Perhaps this new work should be on the forge. Perhaps it should be done in such a way that the users can ultimately determine which server is appropriate in a similar manner to differing physics implementations.<br>>>>><br>>>>> But, regardless, I believe that moving forward in a compatible manner and making sure we dont shoot ourselves in the foot is very important. I would counsel caution *and* I would counsel some independent testing to make sure we are moving forward in a predictable manner.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Charles<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>>
________________________________<br>>>>> From: Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" href="/mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>><br>>>>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" href="/mc/compose?to=opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:43:17 PM<br>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br>>>>><br>>>>> This is not going to happen on the drawing board. It can't. And also <br>>>>> it would be taking the second step before the first.<br>>>>><br>>>>> First, the existing protocols are converted to services, as it has <br>>>>> already happened to asset and inventory services. Those can then run <br>>>>> in B.U.S.T. with full
compatibility.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Then the old server needs to go away. At this point one code base <br>>>>> has been replaced with another one without protocol changes.<br>>>>><br>>>>> This creates a scenario where new protocols can be developed and <br>>>>> tested without breaking things. Here the protocols will evolve as <br>>>>> they are coded.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Finally, the new protocols will replace the old, after they have <br>>>>> been tested and used in production by early adopters.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Melanie<br>>>>><br>>>>> MW wrote:<br>>>>> <br>>>>>> Well as Justin said, there needs to be plans/documents detailing all the details of the replacement protocols before the process of replacing them is
began.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" href="/mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> From: Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" href="/mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>><br>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br>>>>>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" href="/mc/compose?to=opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 9:08 PM<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Hi,<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:<br>>>>>> <br>>>>>>> But the real question was about
your statement<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> "But changes are planned as we are moving to more sane protocols."<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> source: <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-July/006992.html" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-July/006992.html</a><br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> Who is the 'we' in this? What are these protocols? Why are they more sane, etc., etc.? This is an entirely different <br>>>>>>> question to generalizing the OpenSim grid servers. Perhaps they were not meant to be mixed up in this.<br>>>>>>> <br>>>>>> "We" is all of us, the project, for one, and Diva and I as the devs <br>>>>>> driving this change, too.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>>
Today's wire protocols are not sane. There is no point in <br>>>>>> transferring ALL the user's inventory to EVERY region visited, just <br>>>>>> to get the root folder ID, which is the only thing needed from that <br>>>>>> potentially HUGE blob.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Just to mention one known bit of insanity.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Another part that is not sane is the user services. They aren't <br>>>>>> natively equipped to handle the concept of no authentication or HG, <br>>>>>> or user levels, or scopes. They mix in data items that don't belong <br>>>>>> together just because Linden did.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Assets were already made RESTful and so the asset protocol was <br>>>>>> preserved unchanged.<br>>>>>> The grid server protocol is a lean one and
changes will be minimal <br>>>>>> (probably just a XMLRPC->REST conversion if they're not REST already)<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Presence is totally insane again. It needs to be ripped out and <br>>>>>> redone, now that we know more about real world demands large grids <br>>>>>> place on the servers.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> With the modular architecture, that is a simple as snapping in <br>>>>>> another connector. so if your grid uses a new RESTful gridserver <br>>>>>> protocol, you just use the RESTGridConnector rather than the <br>>>>>> XMLLRPCGridConnector. The service providers and consumers stay the same.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> The monolithic servers can't cope with that, so they need to go.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Melanie<br>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" href="/mc/compose?to=Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> <br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>>>>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de"
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