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Rock,<BR>
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If I understand your question correctly, the answer is that if you as a grid service provider have enabled being able to invest economically in assets thru the use of an external currency module, it is you as a responsible grid service provider that has to make sure the currency module and the asset server is secure enough for your business model.<BR>
<BR>
This still holds: OpenSim is alpha software, provided without guarantee. It can be used in commercial settings provided you have the means to mitigate the risks involved. Most commercial grid operations have their own opensim development and quality assurance resources.<BR>
<BR>
That said, there is nothing stopping noone from creating and distributing currency, points or other economic implementations. We have provided hooks and examples.<BR>
<BR>Best regards,<BR>Stefan Andersson<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR>
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From: Colin.Withers@eumetsat.int<BR>To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 10:06:47 +0200<BR>Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency<BR><BR>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I fully understand that argument Stefan (although I do not agree with it). What I do not understand is how a currency module can be considered risky, but the entire asset server (holding everything that people have bought with an external currency module) is not considered even more of a risk.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Rock</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Stefan Andersson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:54 AM<BR><B>To:</B> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Rock,</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">An implementation of a functional monetary system has been declared as out of scope for OpenSim. It is something that has to go into the custom implementation/third party provider layer.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">There is a live and ongoing discussion as of where to draw the line for what goes into the core, and what should be left to external module creators and custom implementation.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">It is within scope of OpenSim to provide hooks so that such a module, tailored for the specific use case, be created.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As a project we need to draw a scope line somewhere, and often it’s a case of weighting several variables against each other.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">In this case, it’s been a long standing stance that implementation of a monetary system is outside of the scope of the OpenSim core distribution.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">We did provide the SampleMoneyModule, but the problem was that people was using this unsafe and immature example code directly in live and production environments. Though we could swear ourselves free from that with a “suit yourself, it was wholly at your own risk”, it’s not only a legal case, but also a case of us not wanting to expose our users to unsafe and immature code that could cause them direct economic damage. We generally don’t want to take decisions for our users, but this one would be considered a real-world risk policy decision.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I believe that the very absence of a money implementation outside of core would be an indication that it’s right not having one inside; if there is no external module being maintained and used, it either means nobody see value enough to work on it, or that any implementation is too use case specific for there to be any value for the general public.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">At any rate, it is my opinion that the whole economy domain needs a lot more work and reach a much higher level of maturity before anything could be considered for inclusion into the core distribution.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">/Stefan</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Colin B. Withers<BR><B>Sent:</B> den 7 juli 2009 15:27<BR><B>To:</B> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If ReactionGrid uses no currency, and has no plans to ever have it, and does not wish to get involded in virtual commerce, using either core solutions or external solutions, then indeed it is a 3D chatroom. 3D chatrooms are well suited to Educational purposes, and indeed my own Opensim grid has been used by a US college for educational purposes. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">However, for a virtual space to take on the mantle of a virtual world, then commerce is an essential element, and currency is essential to that.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I think the argument that there is a risk in providing a currency module in core, from those who might complain "your code ate my money" is a specious argument. This charge could be levelled whenever opensim is used as a platform for a virtual world providing virtual real estate, for real world money (whether a currency module is implemented in core or external) as if the grid goes down due to software bugs the grid owner stands to lose rental income, or be liable for the claims of others.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">This can all be mitigated against (in territotories that allow it) by use of a carefully worded TOS.</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Should the development of opensim be halted because someone might claim "your software crashed my hard-drive, and I have lost US$$$" or "the bugs in your software have contributed to me losing several tenants this week, losing US$$$ in the process"?</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">The software is used 'as is', with no claims as fitness for any particular purpose, and this would apply to any core currency module.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Rock</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">PS Another grid, that the owner ploughed 1000s of dollars into, has collapsed recently, due to lack of a viable currency solution.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Chris Hart<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 06, 2009 3:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Couldn't disagree more - ReactionGrid has no inworld currency and no plans to ever have it. Encouraging creativity, sharing, and collaborative learning has proved more than worthwhile to us. And quite frankly, the legal and tax issues around running a currency system should require dedicated qualified experts to manage correctly. You can do a huge amount without play money inworld - and if you want to pay someone money for a product, there are many solutions out there that are properly regulated by financial services authorities.</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Money should be something you can add in yourselves if you want (hence I believe it's on Forge these days), but I completely understand core developer reluctance to have code in trunk that could potentially come back to haunt with "your code ate my money" complaints.</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Chris</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A title="mailto:Colin.Withers@eumetsat.int
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:Colin.Withers@eumetsat.int">Colin B. Withers</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Monday, July 06, 2009 1:30 PM</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A title="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de
CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Has this always been the case? Why was SampleMoney and OpenCurrency removed?<BR><BR>Without currency opensim regions and grids devolve into nothing more than 3D chatrooms.<BR><BR>Rock<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</A> [<A href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</A>] On Behalf Of Melanie<BR>Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:47 AM<BR>To: <A href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</A><BR>Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency<BR><BR>OpenSim and the OpenSim project don't provide a grid currency<BR>implementation.<BR><BR>Melanie<BR><BR>Melvin Carvalho wrote:<BR>> Will currencies be distributed accross grids?<BR>><BR>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Jason Fisher<bikcmp2@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>>> Hi, as of revision 9000 or so, SAMPLEMONEY was removed, meaning my<BR>>> grid no longer has currency based of wiredux. I also saw OPENCURRENCY<BR>>> has been removed. I really want currncy on my grid, and need help.<BR>>> Anyone know something I can use on a later revision? THANKS<BR>>> bikcmp2@gmail.com<BR>>><BR>>> Sent from my iPhone<BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>>> <A href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</A><BR>>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>> <A href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</A><BR>><BR>><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR><A href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</A><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR><A href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</A><BR><BR>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<BR>Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: 07/05/09 17:54:00</SPAN><BR></DIV></DIV></body>
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