<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div>Sounds like a good argument to put this new work on the forge.<br><br>That way, we can get it wrung out, completed, functional, tested. <br><br>This seems to me a reasonable and proper way to change the underlying grid servers without having a revolution in mid-air.<br><br>Charles<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"><br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Melanie <melanie@t-data.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:51:39 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br></font><br>
Which is precisely what is intended. But the old dinosaur servers <br>are in the way.<br><br>You can rest assured no grids will be harmed in the making of these <br>servers - to paraphrase the movie industry....<br><br>Melanie<br><br>Charles Krinke wrote:<br>> I believe it is pretty important to ensure that we go forwards in a compatible manner and not backwards.<br>> <br>> Certainly new implementations of servers, executables, protocols and the like are encouraged, but we also need to make sure that everything continues to work.<br>> <br>> Perhaps this new work should be on the forge. Perhaps it should be done in such a way that the users can ultimately determine which server is appropriate in a similar manner to differing physics implementations.<br>> <br>> But, regardless, I believe that moving forward in a compatible manner and making sure we dont shoot ourselves in the foot is very important. I would counsel caution *and* I
would counsel some independent testing to make sure we are moving forward in a predictable manner.<br>> <br>> Charles<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ________________________________<br>> From: Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>><br>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:43:17 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br>> <br>> This is not going to happen on the drawing board. It can't. And also <br>> it would be taking the second step before the first.<br>> <br>> First, the existing protocols are converted to services, as it has <br>> already happened to asset and inventory services. Those can then run <br>> in B.U.S.T. with full
compatibility.<br>> <br>> Then the old server needs to go away. At this point one code base <br>> has been replaced with another one without protocol changes.<br>> <br>> This creates a scenario where new protocols can be developed and <br>> tested without breaking things. Here the protocols will evolve as <br>> they are coded.<br>> <br>> Finally, the new protocols will replace the old, after they have <br>> been tested and used in production by early adopters.<br>> <br>> Melanie<br>> <br>> MW wrote:<br>>> Well as Justin said, there needs to be plans/documents detailing all the details of the replacement protocols before the process of replacing them is began.<br>>> <br>>> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> <br>>> From: Melanie <<a ymailto="mailto:melanie@t-data.com"
href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>><br>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?<br>>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>>> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 9:08 PM<br>>> <br>>> Hi,<br>>> <br>>> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:<br>>>> But the real question was about your statement<br>>>> <br>>>> "But changes are planned as we are moving to more sane protocols."<br>>>> <br>>>> source: <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-July/006992.html" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-July/006992.html</a><br>>>> <br>>>> Who is the 'we' in this? What are these protocols? Why are they more sane, etc., etc.? This is an
entirely different <br>>>> question to generalizing the OpenSim grid servers. Perhaps they were not meant to be mixed up in this.<br>>> <br>>> "We" is all of us, the project, for one, and Diva and I as the devs <br>>> driving this change, too.<br>>> <br>>> Today's wire protocols are not sane. There is no point in <br>>> transferring ALL the user's inventory to EVERY region visited, just <br>>> to get the root folder ID, which is the only thing needed from that <br>>> potentially HUGE blob.<br>>> <br>>> Just to mention one known bit of insanity.<br>>> <br>>> Another part that is not sane is the user services. They aren't <br>>> natively equipped to handle the concept of no authentication or HG, <br>>> or user levels, or scopes. They mix in data items that don't belong <br>>> together just because Linden did.<br>>> <br>>> Assets were
already made RESTful and so the asset protocol was <br>>> preserved unchanged.<br>>> The grid server protocol is a lean one and changes will be minimal <br>>> (probably just a XMLRPC->REST conversion if they're not REST already)<br>>> <br>>> Presence is totally insane again. It needs to be ripped out and <br>>> redone, now that we know more about real world demands large grids <br>>> place on the servers.<br>>> <br>>> With the modular architecture, that is a simple as snapping in <br>>> another connector. so if your grid uses a new RESTful gridserver <br>>> protocol, you just use the RESTGridConnector rather than the <br>>> XMLLRPCGridConnector. The service providers and consumers stay the same.<br>>> <br>>> The monolithic servers can't cope with that, so they need to go.<br>>> <br>>> Melanie<br>>>
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