<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">perhaps the bot code (libomv) can be changed to send baked<div>layers to the server (LL or OpenSim) ? I think the libomv folks</div><div> may be looking into this. Short of that, I'll be sticking forever with</div><div>1.22 (as far as I know, the regular LL viewers do not time out like</div><div>the RCs).</div><div><div>-p</div><div><br><div><div>On May 14, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Melanie wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I believe I can explain this.<br><br>JCool, the creator of the Emerald Viewer, has been able to shed some <br>light on this, since his viewer has been using a similar feature <br>from the start.<br><br>Bots largely depend on viewer compositing, this means they send the <br>individual clothing layers, but no baked ones, and the viewing <br>user's viewer composites them into a viewable avatar.<br><br>Starting from 1.23, LL viewer no longer send, or expect, compositing <br>layers. Avatars no longer carry texture information about their <br>individual clothing items. This is to combat theft, avatars now <br>carry only the 3 baked textures. Therefore, Copybot can no longer <br>rip clothing from an avatar it sees.<br><br>Because of this, the "Cloud" stage is perceived to be longer on 1.23 <br>users, as they don't render until the bakes have been pushed to the <br>server and then downloaded by the other clients. An avatar counts as <br>unloaded if it's visual params are the default ones OR it has no <br>baked textures. Previously, it would count as unloaded only if it <br>had no textures at all, or all default visual params.<br><br>Since bots don't bake, they will never render for users of the 1.23, <br>since it neither creates not expects compositing layers.<br><br>Conversely, users of the Emerald Viewer, which features clothing <br>protection, appear as light grey avatars until the baked textures <br>are pushed to the server.<br><br>Melanie<br>Arthur Valadares wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Paul,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">True, many issues are coming with the 1.23, but what really scares me is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that this issue is happening on 1.22 and Hippo 0.5.1. So it would be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">nice we could fix 1.22 issues before cracking heads on the 1.23 ones<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(and they are coming from what I've heard, that's for sure)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 16:47 -0400, Paul Fishwick wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This has been reported on JIRA at Linden Labs, and seems to occur, at<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">least for me, only with the new Release Candidate (RC) 1.23. Version<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1.22<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">does not exhibit the problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">With RC Version 1.23 and an LL server, all bots are rendered<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">as clouds. I noticed this first with Kristen's S17 viewer which is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">built<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">on 1.23, but the regular RC has the same problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">With RC Version 1.23 and an OpenSim server, all avatars (including<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bots) are rendered as clouds.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So, this is indeed a major issue with the upcoming LL client. For<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">reference<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">see:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13386">https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13386</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are many related issues, including the clothing one you mention.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-p<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On May 14, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Arthur Valadares wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi everyone..<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I've been looking into a "bug" where if you get a brand new avatar<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">create pants, shirt, shape and skin and wear all of them, you turn<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">into<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a gas cloud. After lot's of research, it seems this is "kind of"<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">expected behavior. Let me try to explain what I think is happening.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">After SL Viewer 1.20, Ruth no longer existed. If you took off all<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wearables, you would now become a cloud of gas. Apparently, the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">viewer<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">thinks that if you use all those 4 wearables without changing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">anything,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you have become Ruth, and so you should now be a cloud of gas. If<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">make the 4 wearables, but change ANY parameter, you no longer become<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cloud of gas . The thing is on OpenSim you start as Ruth, and not as<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cloud of gas! Which is kind of confusing that the viewer thinks you<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">become Ruth when you're actually trying not to.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So I wanted to gather some ideas on how to circumvent this, if my<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">assumptions are correct, or get corrected otherwise. I can only<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">creating default clothing, like Second Life does.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks all!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Arthur Valadares <<a href="mailto:arthursv@linux.vnet.ibm.com">arthursv@linux.vnet.ibm.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Opensim-dev mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Paul Fishwick, PhD<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Professor<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PO Box 116120<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Bldg. CSE, Room 301<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gainesville, Florida 32611<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Web: <a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Ph: (352) 392-1414<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Fax: (352) 392-1220<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Opensim-dev mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Opensim-dev mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>Opensim-dev mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Paul Fishwick, PhD</div><div>Professor<br>Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs<br>Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.<br>PO Box 116120<br>Bldg. CSE, Room 301<br>Gainesville, Florida 32611<br>Web: <a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a><br>Ph: (352) 392-1414<br>Fax: (352) 392-1220</div></div></span> </div><br></div></div></body></html>