There is a baking method in libomv, but it is not as feature-complete as the one in the LL viewer and may fail if incompatible layers exist, or not all layers are available such as skin/tatoo layers or texture based eyes. Hence, many bot programs will not use the baking code but rather rely on viewers for compositing. These are the bots that appear as clouds in the 1.23 viewer; other bots which can successfully use the libomv baking method appear as normal avatars.<div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Paul Fishwick <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">perhaps the bot code (libomv) can be changed to send baked<div>layers to the server (LL or OpenSim)  ? I think the libomv folks</div><div> may be looking into this. Short of that, I'll be sticking forever with</div>
<div>1.22 (as far as I know, the regular LL viewers do not time out like</div><div>the RCs).</div><div><div>-p</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br><div><div>On May 14, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Melanie wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div>I believe I can explain this.<br><br>JCool, the creator of the Emerald Viewer, has been able to shed some <br>light on this, since his viewer has been using a similar feature <br>from the start.<br><br>Bots largely depend on viewer compositing, this means they send the <br>
individual clothing layers, but no baked ones, and the viewing <br>user's viewer composites them into a viewable avatar.<br><br>Starting from 1.23, LL viewer no longer send, or expect, compositing <br>layers. Avatars no longer carry texture information about their <br>
individual clothing items. This is to combat theft, avatars now <br>carry only the 3 baked textures. Therefore, Copybot can no longer <br>rip clothing from an avatar it sees.<br><br>Because of this, the "Cloud" stage is perceived to be longer on 1.23 <br>
users, as they don't render until the bakes have been pushed to the <br>server and then downloaded by the other clients. An avatar counts as <br>unloaded if it's visual params are the default ones OR it has no <br>
baked textures. Previously, it would count as unloaded only if it <br>had no textures at all, or all default visual params.<br><br>Since bots don't bake, they will never render for users of the 1.23, <br>since it neither creates not expects compositing layers.<br>
<br>Conversely, users of the Emerald Viewer, which features clothing <br>protection, appear as light grey avatars until the baked textures <br>are pushed to the server.<br><br>Melanie<br>Arthur Valadares wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">
Paul,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">True, many issues are coming with the 1.23, but what really scares me is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that this issue is happening on 1.22 and Hippo 0.5.1. So it would be<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite">nice we could fix 1.22 issues before cracking heads on the 1.23 ones<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(and they are coming from what I've heard, that's for sure)<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 16:47 -0400, Paul Fishwick wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This has been reported on JIRA at Linden Labs, and seems to occur, at<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">least for me, only with the new Release Candidate (RC) 1.23. Version<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1.22<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">does not exhibit the problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">With RC Version 1.23 and an LL server, all bots are rendered<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
as clouds. I noticed this first with Kristen's S17 viewer which is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">built<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
on 1.23, but the regular RC has the same problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">With RC Version 1.23 and an OpenSim server, all avatars (including<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bots) are rendered as clouds.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
So, this is indeed a major issue with the upcoming LL client. For<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">reference<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
see:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<a href="https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13386" target="_blank">https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13386</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are many related issues, including the clothing one you mention.<br></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-p<br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On May 14, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Arthur Valadares wrote:<br></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi everyone..<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I've been looking into a "bug" where if you get a brand new avatar<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
create pants, shirt, shape and skin and wear all of them, you turn<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">into<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a gas cloud. After lot's of research, it seems this is "kind of"<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">expected behavior. Let me try to explain what I think is happening.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">After SL Viewer 1.20, Ruth no longer existed. If you took off all<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wearables, you would now become a cloud of gas. Apparently, the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
viewer<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">thinks that if you use all those 4 wearables without changing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">anything,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you have become Ruth, and so you should now be a cloud of gas. If<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
make the 4 wearables, but change ANY parameter, you no longer become<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cloud of gas . The thing is on OpenSim you start as Ruth, and not as<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cloud of gas! Which is kind of confusing that the viewer thinks you<br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">become Ruth when you're actually trying not to.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So I wanted to gather some ideas on how to circumvent this, if my<br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">assumptions are correct, or get corrected otherwise. I can only<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">creating default clothing, like Second Life does.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Thanks all!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Arthur Valadares <<a href="mailto:arthursv@linux.vnet.ibm.com" target="_blank">arthursv@linux.vnet.ibm.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
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<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Paul Fishwick, PhD<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Professor<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PO Box 116120<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Bldg. CSE, Room 301<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Gainesville, Florida 32611<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Web: <a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick" target="_blank">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a><br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Ph: (352) 392-1414<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Fax: (352) 392-1220<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>
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<div>Paul Fishwick, PhD</div><div>Professor<br>Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs<br>Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.<br>PO Box 116120<br>Bldg. CSE, Room 301<br>Gainesville, Florida 32611<br>
Web: <a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick" target="_blank">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a><br>Ph: (352) 392-1414<br>Fax: (352) 392-1220</div></div></span> </div><br></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>

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