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+1 to Melanie<br>
<br>
Melanie wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4939D9AA.2080800@t-data.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,
I am not opposed to Rex technology. I'm not opposed to have it in
OpenSim.
I'm also not opposed to the people who I know (like you).
What I am opposed to is the strategy of doing Windows-only
development behind closed doors, without community (OpenSim dev)
feedback, then presenting huge patches that are so brittle that they
need to be applied without scrutiny or go stale.
I would welcome Rex involvement if the Rex developers would join us
in -dev, discuss things, and submit small patches that we can
analyze and become familiar with, and modify so they don't conflict
with the directions where OpenSim core wants to go.
Fromn what I gather, Rex is intent on pushing both the login service
and the viewer onto OpenSim. Including going to the point of
breaking SL viewer compatibility. I am totally opposed to this. I
would never endorse a single LL-Code based viewer as _the_ viewer,
to the exclusion of any other, unless it's fully BSD licensed, e.g.
developed from scratch.
Also, I see anumber of abuse scenarios possible with the
login/avatar service (commercial abuse), which is why I personally
favor a different model. Specifically, to keep the avatar appearance
data on the client and not on any server at all.
That is what I can write out right now, there is a diffuse feeling
of opposition in me, that I have yet to fathom.
If you take it in small steps, I will be with you. Megapatches would
be an issue for me.
Melanie
Ryan McDougall wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Melanie <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com"><melanie@t-data.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In my opinion, nothing. Nothing, that is, that we could not get
without ReX involvement, and better.
I would like to see OpenSim do an OpenSim solution to the mesh and
asset/inventory system. I don't feel comfortable with the ReX
solution, and even less comfortable with the parts of it they may
hold close to the chest and spring on us later. I expect some
unpalatable bits there. I would rather see us grow to that level in
a true collaborative Open Source, Free environment, without being
under the control of a single corporation.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Which corporation is that? Do you know anything about legal or funding
structure of reX? Do you know any of us personally?
Its a lot to presume with little in the way of fact.
How about instead of playing games you just ask me and I'll tell you.
If I had the faintest idea what your concern is I'd pre-emptively tell
you...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Melanie
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Cheers,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Diva Canto wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">As Rex's extensions move closer to opensim (I'm in the group of people
who can't wait to see meshes and better graphics!), it will be good to
know more of the details of Rex. I'm not sure I understand completely
the use of "avatar" here, as we know that opensim uses it to denote a
pixelated carcass, that's neither a user nor an agent. And in Rex the
"avatar system" seems like it's more of a user storage/asset system.
Part of the user's storage/assets includes the pixelated carcass for
opensim-based worlds that care about that; but it includes all other
assets owned by the user.
It would be interesting to compare existing efforts in opensim such as
the Hypergrid and the distributed asset server with Rex's avatar system.
Is it possible that
Hypergrid+DAS >= Rex's Avatar System ?
What else does the avatar system bring to the table?
Crista
Ryan McDougall wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thank you for your addition to the discussion James, however I think
Paul may have misunderstood reX architecture when made a private
discussion public without consent.
The reX avatar and authentication servers replace the User server and
split it into Avatar storage for reX's own avatar system, and pure
authentication of identity (the latter a bit like OpenID). The idea is
to enable avatar portability: the ability to take the same
meticulously created reX avatar from one grid to another.
Afaik there is no analogue for stock OpenSim, and thus its difficult
to merge until the reX team is better integrated with OpenSim.
Moreover I see room for improvement there, and have some ideas to
change it further. It would be better for all parties if we did our
prototyping first, and then worry about arguing who has the better
concept or code later and the discussion is on objective ground.
Cheers,
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, James Stallings II
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:james.stallings@gmail.com"><james.stallings@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">LOL an ESPECIALLY good idea given they are the originators of the project
and maintainers of the core offering :D
Cheers
James
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Jani Pirkola <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jpirkola@gmail.com"><jpirkola@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Paul,
Good idea to involve Opensim-dev, since they might have better ideas. I
suppose Adam Frisby has already thought how or if to integrate avatar
storage to Opensim.
One reason for avatar appearance (or agent domain) handling being at the
same place with the opensim is because in SL this was so. When we move
towards free 3D Internet (free as libre), then we need to be able to take
our avatar with us from grid to grid. This means that a grid must accept
foreign agent domains - and eventually someone would like to run just the
avatar service.
Best regards,
Jani
2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:metaphorz@gmail.com"><metaphorz@gmail.com></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am resending this since i think I sent a message from the wrong
email account...
..........
Jani
I confess to not knowing the details of the rex viewer source, so please
take
my comments in that light. However, to me, it would seem more logical to
evolve the already existing UGAIM+R services of OpenSim rather than
inventing a separate way of handling region and user services. I feel
that
we may need more discussion with the opensim developers (which is
why I am cc'ing them). If I am missing something in the logic of your
revised
Rex viewer implementation strategy, please let me know, and thank your
team again for its excellent viewer capabilities.
In summary, if there is something about the way that opensim handles
avatars or authentication, then suggest fixes to this via opensim-dev.
Yes?
If the DB schema(s) need to change, then suggest changes or add new
tables.
-paul
Jani Pirkola wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Exactly, that is what we will do. However some of the services need to
be able to run separately from the region or opensim server. The best
example of this is the avatar storage and user authentication, which we feel
needs to be its own entity.
Jani
2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu"><mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu></a>>
Presumably, the "services" aspect can be worked out as a region
module
for opensim? Either that, or the rex team would work with the
opensim
team on the opensim trunk to extend its service capabilities to be
more
consistent with rexviewer. That way, developers or users are free
to update or
re-build opensim whenever it suits them, and rexviewer would still
function.
-p
Antti Ilomäki wrote:
Actually that's not exactly the case, viewer modifications are
important to us, but the avatar portability service (and
participating
in world server development as well) is another central feature
we
have. Our system currently allows full avatar portability
between
different worlds and even the inventory works, at least to an
extent.
2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu"><mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu></a>>:
I could be wrong, but i thought the point was to make Rex
purely
a visual client (viewer) and to let OpenSim handle the
services?
-paul
-- Dr. Paul A. Fishwick E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu"><mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu></a>
Dept. of Computer & Info Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
Science and Engineering WWW:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick"><http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick></a>
University of Florida (PGP Key available at above WWW
address)
P. O. Box 116120
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">--
===================================
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scours the earth for prayers
The night obscures them
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<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Best regards,<br>
Ideia Boa<br>
OpenSimPT<br>
<br>
Join the new 3D world revolution : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.opensimpt.com/">http://www.opensimpt.com/</a></div>
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