Brilliantly stated Adam :D<br><br>Cheers<br>James<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Justin Clark-Casey <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jjustincc@googlemail.com">jjustincc@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d">Frisby, Adam wrote:<br>
> I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying – but I also think one<br>
> of the benefits of OpenSim's design is that if Rex can achieve<br>
> everything in a region module, that limits the requirements for core<br>
> discussion as far as direction goes (it acts effectively as its own<br>
> sub-project, communicating back changes that need to be done to improve<br>
> opensim as a whole).<br>
<br>
</div>A definite +1 on this. Personally, I hope that core OpenSim will eventually become like Apache is now - a stable base<br>
which people build great things on top of without having to go back and make that code part of the webserver project.<br>
<br>
However, I would say that we're currently a considerable way from anything like this happening.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Now that's not to say I wouldn't welcome some greater participation on<br>
> this and other lists – the scale and ambition of the project is<br>
> worthwhile bringing to a community. I think this last year has<br>
> definitely been a bumpy one with regards to Rex 'cooperativity', but<br>
> they have expressed some serious interest lately in rejoining the<br>
> community, and I think it would be really foolish to pass that<br>
> opportunity up over old wounds.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> That all being said – I think ultimately code talks with this crowd,<br>
> let's wait and see – there's certainly no harm occurring right now, and<br>
> there's some potential for benefit. If there's specific issues, then<br>
> raise them – I don't think anyone in this crowd is childish and afraid<br>
> of criticism.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>] *On Behalf Of *James<br>
> Stallings II<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, 5 December 2008 7:55 PM<br>
> *To:* <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] future rexviewer merger<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Charles, All.<br>
><br>
> One thing I have long admired in Charles Ckrinke is an abiding sense of<br>
> loyalty. But you cant make promises on behalf of us all, any more than I<br>
> or Melanie can speak on behalf of us all.<br>
><br>
> I am very much interested in the Rexx work, but the fact is, where Mel<br>
> may be particularly wrong with respect to certain technical assumptions,<br>
> she is spot-on as regards the cross-platform issues and the closed-doors<br>
> work.<br>
><br>
> We are an open community. We established this community, and they come<br>
> to us, not the other way 'round. If they wish work with the community,<br>
> it means open discussion of design and implementation, and incremental<br>
> patches. It also means a demonstrable commitment to cross-platform<br>
> developement. This is nothing more or less than we demand from every<br>
> other party who contributes code to opensim. What I dont understand is<br>
> why Rexx is any different in this respect.<br>
><br>
> Until such time as they are ready to meet us in the middle, and engage<br>
> the requirements of the community as a whole on *its terms* (not just<br>
> those of Charles Crinke or Adam Frisby) I have to pretty well say thumbs<br>
> down. And this really isnt a choice I make willingly - it's the choice I<br>
> have to make by default.<br>
><br>
> My apologies for any perceptions of negativity on my part - I simply<br>
> respect the rules we have established as a team, and I expect nothing<br>
> less from any other participant, whether they washed up on our shores<br>
> yesterday, or are founding members of the project.<br>
><br>
> Just my .02$L, for what it's worth.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
> James<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Frisby, Adam <<a href="mailto:adam@deepthink.com.au">adam@deepthink.com.au</a><br>
</div></div><div class="Ih2E3d">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:adam@deepthink.com.au">adam@deepthink.com.au</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Fromn what I gather, Rex is intent on pushing both the login service<br>
> > and the viewer onto OpenSim. Including going to the point of<br>
> > breaking SL viewer compatibility. I am totally opposed to this. I<br>
> > would never endorse a single LL-Code based viewer as _the_ viewer,<br>
> > to the exclusion of any other, unless it's fully BSD licensed, e.g.<br>
> > developed from scratch.<br>
><br>
> This actually isn't true.<br>
><br>
> The login service is wholly self-contained in the modular rex DLL,<br>
> there's no dependency on modifying OpenSim at all. (Yes, this required a<br>
> lot of hackery initially to work, but it does.), so there's no real<br>
> reason to push it back to OpenSim since there's no core changes.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > From: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-">opensim-dev-</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-">opensim-dev-</a>><br>
><br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">> > <a href="mailto:bounces@lists.berlios.de">bounces@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:bounces@lists.berlios.de">bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>>] On Behalf<br>
> Of Melanie<br>
> > Sent: Friday, 5 December 2008 5:47 PM<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> > To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] future rexviewer merger<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> > Hi,<br>
> ><br>
> > I am not opposed to Rex technology. I'm not opposed to have it in<br>
> > OpenSim.<br>
> > I'm also not opposed to the people who I know (like you).<br>
> ><br>
> > What I am opposed to is the strategy of doing Windows-only<br>
> > development behind closed doors, without community (OpenSim dev)<br>
> > feedback, then presenting huge patches that are so brittle that they<br>
> > need to be applied without scrutiny or go stale.<br>
> ><br>
> > I would welcome Rex involvement if the Rex developers would join us<br>
> > in -dev, discuss things, and submit small patches that we can<br>
> > analyze and become familiar with, and modify so they don't conflict<br>
> > with the directions where OpenSim core wants to go.<br>
> ><br>
> > Fromn what I gather, Rex is intent on pushing both the login service<br>
> > and the viewer onto OpenSim. Including going to the point of<br>
> > breaking SL viewer compatibility. I am totally opposed to this. I<br>
> > would never endorse a single LL-Code based viewer as _the_ viewer,<br>
> > to the exclusion of any other, unless it's fully BSD licensed, e.g.<br>
> > developed from scratch.<br>
> ><br>
> > Also, I see anumber of abuse scenarios possible with the<br>
> > login/avatar service (commercial abuse), which is why I personally<br>
> > favor a different model. Specifically, to keep the avatar appearance<br>
> > data on the client and not on any server at all.<br>
> ><br>
> > That is what I can write out right now, there is a diffuse feeling<br>
> > of opposition in me, that I have yet to fathom.<br>
> ><br>
> > If you take it in small steps, I will be with you. Megapatches would<br>
> > be an issue for me.<br>
> ><br>
> > Melanie<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Ryan McDougall wrote:<br>
> > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Melanie <<a href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a><br>
</div></div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com">melanie@t-data.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> > >> In my opinion, nothing. Nothing, that is, that we could not get<br>
> > >> without ReX involvement, and better.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> I would like to see OpenSim do an OpenSim solution to the mesh and<br>
> > >> asset/inventory system. I don't feel comfortable with the ReX<br>
> > >> solution, and even less comfortable with the parts of it they may<br>
> > >> hold close to the chest and spring on us later. I expect some<br>
> > >> unpalatable bits there. I would rather see us grow to that level in<br>
> > >> a true collaborative Open Source, Free environment, without being<br>
> > >> under the control of a single corporation.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Which corporation is that? Do you know anything about legal or<br>
> > funding<br>
> > > structure of reX? Do you know any of us personally?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Its a lot to presume with little in the way of fact.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > How about instead of playing games you just ask me and I'll tell you.<br>
> > > If I had the faintest idea what your concern is I'd pre-emptively<br>
> > tell<br>
> > > you...<br>
> > ><br>
> > >> Melanie<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Cheers,<br>
> > ><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Diva Canto wrote:<br>
> > >>> As Rex's extensions move closer to opensim (I'm in the group of<br>
> > people<br>
> > >>> who can't wait to see meshes and better graphics!), it will be good<br>
> > to<br>
> > >>> know more of the details of Rex. I'm not sure I understand<br>
> > completely<br>
> > >>> the use of "avatar" here, as we know that opensim uses it to denote<br>
> > a<br>
> > >>> pixelated carcass, that's neither a user nor an agent. And in Rex<br>
> > the<br>
> > >>> "avatar system" seems like it's more of a user storage/asset<br>
> > system.<br>
> > >>> Part of the user's storage/assets includes the pixelated carcass<br>
> > for<br>
> > >>> opensim-based worlds that care about that; but it includes all<br>
> > other<br>
> > >>> assets owned by the user.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> It would be interesting to compare existing efforts in opensim such<br>
> > as<br>
> > >>> the Hypergrid and the distributed asset server with Rex's avatar<br>
> > system.<br>
> > >>> Is it possible that<br>
> > >>> Hypergrid+DAS >= Rex's Avatar System ?<br>
> > >>> What else does the avatar system bring to the table?<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Crista<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Ryan McDougall wrote:<br>
> > >>>> Thank you for your addition to the discussion James, however I<br>
> > think<br>
> > >>>> Paul may have misunderstood reX architecture when made a private<br>
> > >>>> discussion public without consent.<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> The reX avatar and authentication servers replace the User server<br>
> > and<br>
> > >>>> split it into Avatar storage for reX's own avatar system, and pure<br>
> > >>>> authentication of identity (the latter a bit like OpenID). The<br>
> > idea is<br>
> > >>>> to enable avatar portability: the ability to take the same<br>
> > >>>> meticulously created reX avatar from one grid to another.<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> Afaik there is no analogue for stock OpenSim, and thus its<br>
> > difficult<br>
> > >>>> to merge until the reX team is better integrated with OpenSim.<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> Moreover I see room for improvement there, and have some ideas to<br>
> > >>>> change it further. It would be better for all parties if we did<br>
> > our<br>
> > >>>> prototyping first, and then worry about arguing who has the better<br>
> > >>>> concept or code later and the discussion is on objective ground.<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> Cheers,<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM, James Stallings II<br>
</div></div>> > >>>> <<a href="mailto:james.stallings@gmail.com">james.stallings@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:james.stallings@gmail.com">james.stallings@gmail.com</a>>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> wrote:<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>>> LOL an ESPECIALLY good idea given they are the originators of the<br>
> > project<br>
> > >>>>> and maintainers of the core offering :D<br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>> Cheers<br>
> > >>>>> James<br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Jani Pirkola<br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">> > <<a href="mailto:jpirkola@gmail.com">jpirkola@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jpirkola@gmail.com">jpirkola@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>>> Paul,<br>
> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>> Good idea to involve Opensim-dev, since they might have better<br>
> > ideas. I<br>
> > >>>>>> suppose Adam Frisby has already thought how or if to integrate<br>
> > avatar<br>
> > >>>>>> storage to Opensim.<br>
> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>> One reason for avatar appearance (or agent domain) handling<br>
> > being at the<br>
> > >>>>>> same place with the opensim is because in SL this was so. When<br>
> > we move<br>
> > >>>>>> towards free 3D Internet (free as libre), then we need to be<br>
> > able to take<br>
> > >>>>>> our avatar with us from grid to grid. This means that a grid<br>
> > must accept<br>
> > >>>>>> foreign agent domains - and eventually someone would like to run<br>
> > just the<br>
> > >>>>>> avatar service.<br>
> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>> Best regards,<br>
> > >>>>>> Jani<br>
> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <<a href="mailto:metaphorz@gmail.com">metaphorz@gmail.com</a><br>
</div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:metaphorz@gmail.com">metaphorz@gmail.com</a>>><br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>> I am resending this since i think I sent a message from the<br>
> > wrong<br>
> > >>>>>>> email account...<br>
> > >>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>> ..........<br>
> > >>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>> Jani<br>
> > >>>>>>> I confess to not knowing the details of the rex viewer source,<br>
> > so please<br>
> > >>>>>>> take<br>
> > >>>>>>> my comments in that light. However, to me, it would seem more<br>
> > logical to<br>
> > >>>>>>> evolve the already existing UGAIM+R services of OpenSim rather<br>
> > than<br>
> > >>>>>>> inventing a separate way of handling region and user services.<br>
> > I feel<br>
> > >>>>>>> that<br>
> > >>>>>>> we may need more discussion with the opensim developers (which<br>
> > is<br>
> > >>>>>>> why I am cc'ing them). If I am missing something in the logic<br>
> > of your<br>
> > >>>>>>> revised<br>
> > >>>>>>> Rex viewer implementation strategy, please let me know, and<br>
> > thank your<br>
> > >>>>>>> team again for its excellent viewer capabilities.<br>
> > >>>>>>> In summary, if there is something about the way that opensim<br>
> > handles<br>
> > >>>>>>> avatars or authentication, then suggest fixes to this via<br>
> > opensim-dev.<br>
> > >>>>>>> Yes?<br>
> > >>>>>>> If the DB schema(s) need to change, then suggest changes or add<br>
> > new<br>
> > >>>>>>> tables.<br>
> > >>>>>>> -paul<br>
> > >>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>> Jani Pirkola wrote:<br>
> > >>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> Exactly, that is what we will do. However some of the services<br>
> > need to<br>
> > >>>>>>>> be able to run separately from the region or opensim server.<br>
> > The best<br>
> > >>>>>>>> example of this is the avatar storage and user authentication,<br>
> > which we feel<br>
> > >>>>>>>> needs to be its own entity.<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> Jani<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>><br>
</div></div>> > >>>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>>>><br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> Presumably, the "services" aspect can be worked out as a<br>
> > region<br>
> > >>>>>>>> module<br>
> > >>>>>>>> for opensim? Either that, or the rex team would work with<br>
> > the<br>
> > >>>>>>>> opensim<br>
> > >>>>>>>> team on the opensim trunk to extend its service<br>
> > capabilities to be<br>
> > >>>>>>>> more<br>
> > >>>>>>>> consistent with rexviewer. That way, developers or users<br>
> > are free<br>
> > >>>>>>>> to update or<br>
> > >>>>>>>> re-build opensim whenever it suits them, and rexviewer<br>
> > would still<br>
> > >>>>>>>> function.<br>
> > >>>>>>>> -p<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> Antti Ilomäki wrote:<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> Actually that's not exactly the case, viewer<br>
> > modifications are<br>
> > >>>>>>>> important to us, but the avatar portability service<br>
> > (and<br>
> > >>>>>>>> participating<br>
> > >>>>>>>> in world server development as well) is another<br>
> > central feature<br>
> > >>>>>>>> we<br>
> > >>>>>>>> have. Our system currently allows full avatar<br>
> > portability<br>
> > >>>>>>>> between<br>
> > >>>>>>>> different worlds and even the inventory works, at<br>
> > least to an<br>
> > >>>>>>>> extent.<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> 2008/12/5 Paul Fishwick <<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a><br>
</div></div><div class="Ih2E3d">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>>>>:<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> I could be wrong, but i thought the point was to<br>
> > make Rex<br>
> > >>>>>>>> purely<br>
> > >>>>>>>> a visual client (viewer) and to let OpenSim handle<br>
> > the<br>
> > >>>>>>>> services?<br>
> > >>>>>>>> -paul<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> -- Dr. Paul A. Fishwick E-Mail:<br>
> > <a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>><br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">> > >>>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a><br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a>>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> Dept. of Computer & Info Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414<br>
> > >>>>>>>> Science and Engineering WWW:<br>
> > >>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick" target="_blank">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a><br>
> <<a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick" target="_blank">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick</a>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> <<a href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick" target="_blank">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick</a>><br>
> > >>>>>>>> University of Florida (PGP Key available at above<br>
> > WWW<br>
> > >>>>>>>> address)<br>
> > >>>>>>>> P. O. Box 116120<br>
> > >>>>>>>> 332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120<br>
> > >>>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
> > >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
</div>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > >>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > >>>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > >>>>>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > >>>>>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>>><br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>> --<br>
> > >>>>> ===================================<br>
> > >>>>> The wind<br>
> > >>>>> scours the earth for prayers<br>
> > >>>>> The night obscures them<br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>> <a href="http://osgrid.org" target="_blank">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
> > >>>>> <a href="http://del.icio.us/SPQR" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/SPQR</a><br>
> > >>>>> <a href="http://twitter.com/jstallings2" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/jstallings2</a><br>
> > >>>>> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49</a><br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > >>>>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > >>>>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>>><br>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > >>>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > >>>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > -----<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > >>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > >>> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > >> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > >> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > >><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > > <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > > <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> > <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> > <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
</div>> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ===================================<br>
> The wind<br>
> scours the earth for prayers<br>
> The night obscures them<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://osgrid.org" target="_blank">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://del.icio.us/SPQR" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/SPQR</a><br>
> <a href="http://twitter.com/jstallings2" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/jstallings2</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">--<br>
justincc<br>
Justin Clark-Casey<br>
<a href="http://justincc.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://justincc.wordpress.com</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>===================================<br>The wind<br>scours the earth for prayers<br>The night obscures them<br><br><a href="http://osgrid.org">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
<a href="http://del.icio.us/SPQR">http://del.icio.us/SPQR</a><br><a href="http://twitter.com/jstallings2">http://twitter.com/jstallings2</a><br><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49</a><br>