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I for one would love to see it unfold something like this<BR>
<BR>
1) one or several prototypical and specialized implementations coding directly to ODE but in a nice manner.<BR>
2) the implementations refactored into a nice OpenSim API for ODE joints<BR>
3) one or several implementations of vehicles utilizing this API directly<BR>
4) these implementations refactored into a nice OpenSim vehicle API<BR>
5) implementing the LSL vehicle model using this API<BR><BR>
so yeah, bottom up is the way to go, but with a clear goal in the back of our heads.<BR>
<BR>
I for one would want to see the monorail module before the monorail lsl script.<BR>
<BR>
I also suspect that along the lines, we might see that we want to implement vehicle types that don't fit into the lsl model... like the 'humanoid' or 'animal' - anybody up for building a stone giant or re-casting an agent in pure prims? :D<BR> <BR>Best regards,<BR>Stefan Andersson<BR>Tribal Media AB<BR> <BR>Join the 3d web revolution : <A href="http://tribalnet.se/">http://tribalnet.se/</A><BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>> From: adam@deepthink.com.au<BR>> To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:01:27 -0500<BR>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Using ODE for vehicles and ragdolls<BR>> <BR>> Doesnt ODE have vehicle support internally? The concern I'd have about a vehicle layer over the top might be that performance is suboptimal since we need to run a second physics step which could introduce issues.<BR>> <BR>> Regards,<BR>> <BR>> Adam<BR>> <BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-<BR>> > bounces@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Gerhard Dünnebeil<BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2008 10:40 PM<BR>> > To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Using ODE for vehicles and ragdolls<BR>> ><BR>> > Hi<BR>> ><BR>> > having looked into the ODE engine I don't think it's usable for the<BR>> > vehicle API.<BR>> ><BR>> > Instead i think we should put the vehicle engine on top of it.<BR>> ><BR>> > This is pretty easily done by adding another layer (could/should be in<BR>> > a<BR>> > plugin).<BR>> > It can be called in each "Simulate" step and calculate the forces<BR>> > needed<BR>> > to achieve the vehicles behaviour.<BR>> > These forces are then applied -- using the phys engine's API -- to the<BR>> > objects.<BR>> ><BR>> > This way we are<BR>> > a) ... independant (at least theoretically) from the characteristics of<BR>> > the underlying Phys engine<BR>> > b) ... able to implement different engines for different purposes<BR>> ><BR>> > I know someone (is it you, nlin?) already implemented a sailing boat in<BR>> > OpenSim. A modular approach here would allow us to implement<BR>> > alternative<BR>> > friction models beyond what LSL gives us.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Just my two cents<BR>> ><BR>> > Gerhard<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > nlin (message) wrote:<BR>> > > Hello,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > There's been some discussion about SL-compatible vehicles in OpenSim<BR>> > > recently, with its higher-level abstraction of how vehicles work.<BR>> > This<BR>> > > would have the long-term goals of compatibility and ability to swap<BR>> > > out physics engines while still using the same vehicle layer.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > SL-compatibility and abstracting vehicles from the physics engine are<BR>> > > good goals for the long term; sort of a top-down approach (start with<BR>> > > the vehicle abstraction, map it to many different physics engines).<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Complementary to this, I'd like to explore and start discussion of an<BR>> > > alternative way of handling vehicles by using a bottom-up approach.<BR>> > > Starting with the specific physics engine of ODE, can we use<BR>> > > ODE-specific features to make simple vehicles?<BR>> > ><BR>> > > I did some experiments with OpenSim and ODE and the answer seems to<BR>> > be<BR>> > > yes, we can make simple vehicles with ODE by using joints. We can<BR>> > also<BR>> > > make ragdolls. I posted some videos to YouTube of the preliminary<BR>> > results:<BR>> > ><BR>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYIh-eIwmjs<BR>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9bedzIuxdM<BR>> > ><BR>> > > This is only prototype work for now, put together sort of quickly as<BR>> > a<BR>> > > proof-of-concept with just enough "plumbing" (data flow) to work.<BR>> > > There are a number of issues that need to be solved for this to work<BR>> > > cleanly. As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) there<BR>> > > hasn't been much work done to try to get ODE joints/vehicles/ragdolls<BR>> > > working in OpenSim, but I think it's an avenue worth exploring.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Is there interest in pursuing this approach for OpenSim vehicles? I<BR>> > > would look forward to discussing some of the issues that would need<BR>> > to<BR>> > > be solved.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Thanks,<BR>> > > N Lin (nlin)<BR>> > ><BR>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> > ---<BR>> > ><BR>> > > _______________________________________________<BR>> > > Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>> > > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>> > Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Opensim-dev mailing list<BR>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<BR><BR></body>
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