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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Let me add my thoughts here since I wrote a lot of that code
originally<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Brush sizes: Yep, this is a problem. In Linden-terms the range
of the brush is 2^x where X is the ‘brush byte’ in meters. I use a ‘spherical
distance’ calculation there which has the habit of making changes for small
values of ‘x’ very small. We possibly need to change that formula (linear
distance may work).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Flatten: you have it down pat – we could probably record the
last value for each user and carry those across, having the options would be
nice – there’s actually 5-6 terrain tools which the UI does not expose, but we
support (use “terrain newbrushes true” to see them).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Spikes are usually caused by us doing something wrong – these
are cases where averages go to weird values, we divide by very small numbers,
etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sim boundaries are a *<b>very</b>* nasty problem, because to do
effective terraforming with smoothed sides, we need to send a minimum of 16x16
height cells between the sims several times a second, and we need to do it
quickly in order for the viewer to see things accurately. I did start some work
on this a while ago which I may get time to finish sometime later.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Pitman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 11 September 2008 10:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] Very sensitive terrain adjustment?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I've also
noticed the limited utility of the OS terrain editing tools relative to SL. I
do a fair amount of multi-sim terraforming on both platforms (SL: Shengri La;
OS: Arizona Bay in osgrid, Tardis before smooth tool, and several other
smallers stunts) I contributed code an early smooth tool, before the last round
of terrain tool reworkings. </span><br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A few
observations:</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
- OS large brush terrain ops are much faster than SL, which is a
good thing when you are doing very large terraforming operations.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
- As Melanie mentioned, the smaller brushes are ineffectual.
Small has no noticable effect, and medium could be a little larger if small was
useful</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
-Flatten in SL remembers the height of the original click for the
duration of the hold, and brings the land to that height, which is great
forming trails at the same height so they reflect the land textures applied to
the terrain. In OS, the flatten tool has a moving target that appently attempts
to flatten the land around the average height. There are use cases for both, it
would be nice to have the option.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
-Occaisionally I see a mode that forms the terrain spikes. It is
unfortunately not always reproducible, which is puzzling. For a few versions it
was consistant and bad, and reminded me of the bug I saw (missing minus sign on
the transform ;-p ) when getting the first smooth tool to work. Currently it
happens sometimes, but is repairable with flatten. If I can nail a reproducible
case, I'll mantis it.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
-At some point multisim regions in standalone mode had a problem
with spikes forming, and a horrible flatten bug when the brush crossed sims
(catastrophically flattening the crossed sim to the default height...a bug
which took out a quarter of a four sim mountain on Tardis...ugh) The flatten
bug has been resolved but recent touches to tardis gave spikes.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
- OS: Flattening and smoothing does not work on sim boundaries,
though persistant trickery can cover up the problem for emergency terraforming.
Smoothing across sim boundaries on a slope induces a cliff along the border.
The convergence of the op appears to give cliff height that is somewhat
related to the slope of the terrain under smoothing (something like a few
meters for a 45 degree slope, Higher cliff for steeper slope.) Flatten does not
fix the cliff, it mostly reinforces it. They way around it involves crafty
combinations of raise with dashes of flatten and smooth...clearly not optimal.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Finally, I'll
through a big +N at using the terrain tools inworld where possible. A clear
advantage is that fine adjustments can take place in the context of the build
and landscaping, and evolve with it. Sunsets and sunrises can be crafted from
favorite sitting spots, and more generally, form can better follow function.
Consider Shengri La in SL as an example. </span><br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>...my two cents</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-Mike
Pitman/Rez Tone</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Melanie
<melanie@t-data.com></span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent by:
opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>09/11/2008
11:54 AM</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please respond to<br>
opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>cc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Re:
[Opensim-dev] Very sensitive terrain adjustment?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I did say "Wysiwyg".</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>L3DT is not. It's algorithm-based.</tt><br>
<tt>It's also not 100% linux compatible</tt><br>
<tt>There is not tool I know of that you can use to terraform like in SL, </tt><br>
<tt>e.g. with a mobile camera and brushes.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Melanie</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Dr Scofield wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>> Melanie wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>>> I also see over-sensitive terraforming. The small tools almost </tt><br>
<tt>>> useless. The feel of inworld terraforming is nothing like SL at
all.</tt><br>
<tt>>> It's unusable for me.</tt><br>
<tt>>> I terraform SL sims, save the raw and load it into my opensims.
Only </tt><br>
<tt>>> way I can do it, as there is no wysiwyg terrain editor outside of
SL </tt><br>
<tt>>> that i know of.</tt><br>
<tt>>> </tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> L3DT, see also my blog post about using it:</tt><br>
<tt>> http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/2008/03/10/being-slartibartfast/</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> cheers,</tt><br>
<tt>> dirk</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>>> Melanie</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> Ai Austin wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>>> </tt><br>
<tt>>>> I was just trying the latest versions of Opensim.. and was
going to </tt><br>
<tt>>>> adjust a little bit of terrain with the edit terrain ->
raise height </tt><br>
<tt>>>> radio button -> set to small increment.</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> As soon as I touch the plot the terrain height SHOT up into
the sky </tt><br>
<tt>>>> 100m with sheer cliff edges on the touched area, and then an
adjacent </tt><br>
<tt>>>> area my mouse went over did the same. I had to reload the .f32
</tt><br>
<tt>>>> terrain file to get it back in shape.</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Are we aware of such a sensitivity in recent builds or is this
a new </tt><br>
<tt>>>> bug I should try to investigate more and report properly?</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</tt><br>
<tt>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> </tt><br>
<tt>>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>>> Opensim-dev mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>>> Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</tt><br>
<tt>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> </tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<br>
<tt>_______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>Opensim-dev mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</tt><br>
<tt>https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</tt></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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