<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t know either are fully necessary actually.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Personally I suspect the performance problems here are likely to
be something behaving badly rather than a limitation on the runtime itself. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dzonatas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 17 August 2008 9:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] Upcoming work on alternative client stack<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Then, may I guess, some available options are:<br>
* "safe" platform-specific native libraries that provide handles
(hHandle style) to a packet subsystem<br>
or<br>
* re-write the transport to a portable implementation that performs/scales
under CIL<br>
<br>
First option requires management of platform portability, which APR can help
and probably reaches all platforms that CIL runs on. Exceptions are a pain,
however.<br>
<br>
Second option would be easy on the server side, but even if implemented in CIL
the support of it would require implementation in the viewers to switch between
either transport.<br>
<br>
I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest these on this list.<br>
<br>
Frisby, Adam wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Using unsafe blocks though is generally considered a bad
idea(tm), and has a good chance of breaking compatibility with things though.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adam</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a
href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>
[<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de">mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dzonatas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 17 August 2008 7:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] Upcoming work on alternative client stack</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>If unsafe blocks are allowed, then shuffle optimizations
could be used. It would only be advantageous if the data is streamed. The
packets are probably accumulated in a way that would cause more overhead just
to sort them and stream them. If there are ones that can be arranged, then it
may be practical.<br>
<br>
<br>
Melanie wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Not really. Two memory accesses to retrieve 2 values packed into one <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>byte are 2 accesses. in C#, C++, unsafe blocks or even assembly. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>They remain inefficient.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Melanie<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Kyle Hamilton wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Could the unpackers be implemented more efficiently if they could run<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>in unsafe blocks?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-Kyle H<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Melanie <a
href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com"><melanie@t-data.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>specific types, as we have now. What is it you don't like about what<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>we have now? With the framework we have to work with (C#) the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>current implementation seems the best one we can get.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I have already shown in chat how unpackers lose efficiency with LL's<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>weird bitpacked data fields. This would show less performance, not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>more. So I wonder what the point is?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Melanie<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Mike Mazur wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:49:51 +0100<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Melanie <a
href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com"><melanie@t-data.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>if the packets are structs/arrays, be careful of boxing issues. You<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>would have no advantage from that if you have to eat the boxing<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>overhead instead.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>Hm, that's a good point. I guess since Packet is a descendant of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>object, no performance hit occurs.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>What would be a good way to get around this?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Mike<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Opensim-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Opensim-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Opensim-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Opensim-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Opensim-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>