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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the clarifications, Jani, that was a very useful description
between the press release and the source code.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Just a few questions more:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Will VeriSign or Yahoo – or whomever – be able to
set up these kinds of account services?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Does it work more or less the way I described my usage scenario?
That is, will I be able to go from OSGrid to the public IBM grid under <a
href="mailto:crista@verisignvw.com">crista@verisignvw.com</a>, assuming both
grids accept verisignvw accounts? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Does this require the use of the realXtend viewer or can this be
used with the standard LL viewer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Crista / Diva<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jani Pirkola<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 10, 2008 1:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] avatar system or similar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi,<br>
<br>
Some comments how realXend has implemented things:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote>2008/4/10, Michael Wright <<a
href="mailto:michaelwri22@yahoo.co.uk">michaelwri22@yahoo.co.uk</a>>:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I haven't been able to find too much on how the RealXtend
avatar system is really going to work. And while in some ways I think its a
step in the right direction, it also seems to limit a lot of things. I'm
not so sure you should alway have the same avatar for everything. Or should
completely cut the "region servers" out of the whole process. If I
teleport to a region that has a role playing game, maybe my avatar should
automatically change (at least clothes, but maybe body as well) to fit into
that game. So the region has to be able to have some say over the avatar. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
The current realXtend login process gives a control point for region servers as
well. When a user logs in to a region, the viewer sends URL to user's avatar
storage. The region then sends that URL t other viewers so that other user's
can see each other's avatars. It is possible that in e.g. a strict role playing
world, the region uses it's own avatar storage which stores a special avatar
for just that user. Then the region server sends URL to that avatar storage
instead of the one that viewer sent to the region. If we want to get really
smart here, it would be also possible to combine something from the user's
regular avatar to the role playing game avatar to achieve nice results... e.g.
using face form from user's regular avatar but otherwise using region specific
body and clothes. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I have the same sort of thoughts about inventory. While it
should not be centralised, the regions do need to be able to (with permission)
do certain things, like maybe a region gives you a extra set of folders for use
in that region, but they disappear when you leave it. I am also not sure there
should be just one inventory set for each user. Why not a number of sub sets
that can be combined etc. Maybe the region could restrict access to only a
certain set, which might be a set that it provides, when in that region; no
space ships when in that serious business region.. Inventory really needs to
swap to a more url based system. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
We are just thinking how to build all this in realXtend. Currently we have
thought that each user will have a region specific inventory and a personal
inventory. The personal inventory is stored at avatar storage so it will travel
with the avatar. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Also we need to remember not everything will be interconnected.
There will be some applications (or possible grids) that want to be separate
from everything else. <br>
<br>
So I don't think we should be forcing any centralised system on people. And yes
from what I've read, I actually think the realxtend avatar system sounds too
centralised, but that could be because I don't know enough details of what is
planned. I'm not saying its wrong, it just doesn't fit all possible uses. So we
need things to at least be modular. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Currently realXtend components have been designed so that there are no
centralized control points, it would be really a bad planning to build such an
architecture on that kind of centralized assumptions. In realXtend
architecture, everyone can set up their own avatar storages and user
authentication services and decide to trust or not to other user's
authentication services. <br>
If a virtual world hosting company wants to make a completely walled garden
solution with realXtend, that is also possible. They can set up their own
avatar authentication and storage and trust no-one else's authentication server
(there is a basic allow/deny setting for this). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Having said all that, of course I think a lot of people and
applications will want to have shared resources like these. Just we have to be
careful in how they are implemented. And for opensim at least, that should be a
open process/design that everyone can be part of. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
A team of people almost always reaches better solutions over individual. All
the different use cases should be covered in a great care. I hope that
realXtend initiative with the distributed avatar architecture is being refined
with the OpenSim community involvement. I am sure that there are still many
things that need addressing. The realXtend code is available at <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendserver/">http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendserver/</a>
and as I mentioned in my earlier mail, we will have a new version, which is
based on current OpenSim, soon available.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Jani Pirkola<br>
realXtend program manager<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=e><b><i>Sean Dague <<a
href="mailto:sean@dague.net" target="_blank">sean@dague.net</a>></i></b>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;
margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=e>On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 08:50:33AM -0700, Diva
Canto wrote:</span><br>
<span class=e>> Hi,</span><br>
<span class=e>> </span><br>
<span class=e>> What happened to realXtend's "avatar system"? Is
it being integrated </span><br>
<span class=e>> with OpenSim?</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Short answers. I don't know, and no. The process for code coming
into</span><br>
<span class=e>OpenSim is to put a patch in mantis. I haven't seen any proposed</span><br>
<span class=e>patches in this area in mantis.</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>> From where I stand, that, or something like that, is a major
</span><br>
<span class=e>> architectural requirement for virtual worlds to get serious.
Without the </span><br>
<span class=e>> ability for people to get an identity+inventory that they
can port </span><br>
<span class=e>> around through different organization's grids, this is not
going to be </span><br>
<span class=e>> that useful. I see a lot of interest from organizations to
set up their </span><br>
<span class=e>> own virtual worlds under their control (so, their own
grid'ed regions), </span><br>
<span class=e>> but if people have to get accounts with them to visit, this
is just not </span><br>
<span class=e>> going to work for serious usages - period.</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Hence you've created the paradox. :)</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>* We want everything connected</span><br>
<span class=e>* We don't want to trust a single authoritative source for info</span><br>
<span class=e>(otherwise you'd be on Second Life)</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Honestly, this is a hard problem to solve, and one that seems a
bit</span><br>
<span class=e>beyond the current scope. That being said, implementations and
research</span><br>
<span class=e>in this area which work with OpenSim are always welcomed.</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>> I understand there's a ton of stability work to be done, but
this </span><br>
<span class=e>> particular architectural decision is really important, even </span><br>
<span class=e>> (especially?) at this early stage; we all trust stability will
happen </span><br>
<span class=e>> over time.</span><br>
<span class=e>> Is there anything that I can do to boost the efforts in that
direction, </span><br>
<span class=e>> besides sending this email?</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Sample peer based User services that allow cross talk would be
useful.</span><br>
<span class=e>The moral equivalent of OpenID for virtual worlds (because you
need more</span><br>
<span class=e>than just what openid provides).</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>-Sean</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>-- </span><br>
<span class=e>__________________________________________________________________</span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>Sean Dague Mid-Hudson Valley</span><br>
<span class=e>sean at dague dot net Linux Users Group</span><br>
<span class=e><a href="http://dague.net" target="_blank">http://dague.net</a> <a
href="http://mhvlug.org" target="_blank">http://mhvlug.org</a></span><br>
<br>
<span class=e>There is no silver bullet. Plus, werewolves make better neighbors</span><br>
<span class=e>than zombies, and they tend to keep the vampire population down.</span><br>
<span class=e>__________________________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ad><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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