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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Can’t wait to see that integrated with OpenSim!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I like your viewer a lot, but do you think there is a way
of restructuring this so that it can be used with the regular LL viewer? Why
does this need your viewer at all? Is it because the login process requires
additional cooperation from the client? I mean, I understand that the more fancy
avatar appearance that you have requires changes in the viewer, but I don’t
see why the inter-grid TPs require a different viewer. Isn’t there a way
of separating the inter-grid TPs from the avatar appearance? Could you explain
that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Crista / Diva<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jani Pirkola<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] avatar system or similar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<p style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>1)
Will VeriSign or Yahoo – or whomever – be able to set up these
kinds of account services?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Yes that is right. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>2)
Does it work more or less the way I described my usage scenario? That is, will
I be able to go from OSGrid to the public IBM grid under <a
href="mailto:crista@verisignvw.com" target="_blank">crista@verisignvw.com</a>,
assuming both grids accept verisignvw accounts?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
yes just like that. You get also possibility to change your account in the
teleporting process in case you know that another grid is not accepting your
example <a href="mailto:crista@verisignvw.com">crista@verisignvw.com</a>
account (actually this happens if you teleport to Second Life). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>3)
Does this require the use of the realXtend viewer or can this be used with the
standard LL viewer?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Currently only realXtend viewer can be used, but I wish that
in the future there will be more support for this architecture. We maintain the
realXtend viewer so that it can be used to access also SL servers or standard
OpenSim. The avatar appearance from avatar storage can only be seen by others
on realXtend servers. The architecture needs support from both server and
client. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Jani<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Crista / Diva</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jani Pirkola<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 10, 2008 1:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<span class=q><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-dev] avatar system or similar</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi,<br>
<br>
Some comments how realXend has implemented things:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>2008/4/10, Michael Wright <<a href="mailto:michaelwri22@yahoo.co.uk"
target="_blank">michaelwri22@yahoo.co.uk</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I haven't been able to find too much on how the RealXtend avatar system is
really going to work. And while in some ways I think its a step in the right
direction, it also seems to limit a lot of things. I'm not so sure you
should alway have the same avatar for everything. Or should completely cut the
"region servers" out of the whole process. If I teleport to a region
that has a role playing game, maybe my avatar should automatically change (at
least clothes, but maybe body as well) to fit into that game. So the region has
to be able to have some say over the avatar. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><br>
The current realXtend login process gives a control point for region servers as
well. When a user logs in to a region, the viewer sends URL to user's avatar
storage. The region then sends that URL t other viewers so that other user's
can see each other's avatars. It is possible that in e.g. a strict role playing
world, the region uses it's own avatar storage which stores a special avatar
for just that user. Then the region server sends URL to that avatar storage
instead of the one that viewer sent to the region. If we want to get really
smart here, it would be also possible to combine something from the user's
regular avatar to the role playing game avatar to achieve nice results... e.g.
using face form from user's regular avatar but otherwise using region specific
body and clothes. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I have the same sort of thoughts about inventory. While it should not be
centralised, the regions do need to be able to (with permission) do certain
things, like maybe a region gives you a extra set of folders for use in that
region, but they disappear when you leave it. I am also not sure there should
be just one inventory set for each user. Why not a number of sub sets that can
be combined etc. Maybe the region could restrict access to only a certain set,
which might be a set that it provides, when in that region; no space ships when
in that serious business region.. Inventory really needs to swap to a more url
based system. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
We are just thinking how to build all this in realXtend. Currently we have
thought that each user will have a region specific inventory and a personal
inventory. The personal inventory is stored at avatar storage so it will travel
with the avatar. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
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<p>Also we need to remember not everything will be interconnected. There will
be some applications (or possible grids) that want to be separate from
everything else. <br>
<br>
So I don't think we should be forcing any centralised system on people. And yes
from what I've read, I actually think the realxtend avatar system sounds too
centralised, but that could be because I don't know enough details of what is
planned. I'm not saying its wrong, it just doesn't fit all possible uses. So we
need things to at least be modular. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p><br>
Currently realXtend components have been designed so that there are no
centralized control points, it would be really a bad planning to build such an
architecture on that kind of centralized assumptions. In realXtend
architecture, everyone can set up their own avatar storages and user
authentication services and decide to trust or not to other user's
authentication services. <br>
If a virtual world hosting company wants to make a completely walled garden
solution with realXtend, that is also possible. They can set up their own
avatar authentication and storage and trust no-one else's authentication server
(there is a basic allow/deny setting for this). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Having said all that, of course I think a lot of people and applications
will want to have shared resources like these. Just we have to be careful in
how they are implemented. And for opensim at least, that should be a open
process/design that everyone can be part of. <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p><br>
A team of people almost always reaches better solutions over individual. All
the different use cases should be covered in a great care. I hope that
realXtend initiative with the distributed avatar architecture is being refined
with the OpenSim community involvement. I am sure that there are still many
things that need addressing. The realXtend code is available at <a
href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendserver/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/projects/realxtendserver/</a>
and as I mentioned in my earlier mail, we will have a new version, which is
based on current OpenSim, soon available.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Jani Pirkola<br>
realXtend program manager<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><b><i>Sean Dague <<a href="mailto:sean@dague.net" target="_blank">sean@dague.net</a>></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p>On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 08:50:33AM -0700, Diva Canto wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> What happened to realXtend's "avatar system"? Is it being
integrated <br>
> with OpenSim?<br>
<br>
Short answers. I don't know, and no. The process for code coming into<br>
OpenSim is to put a patch in mantis. I haven't seen any proposed<br>
patches in this area in mantis.<br>
<br>
> From where I stand, that, or something like that, is a major <br>
> architectural requirement for virtual worlds to get serious. Without the <br>
> ability for people to get an identity+inventory that they can port <br>
> around through different organization's grids, this is not going to be <br>
> that useful. I see a lot of interest from organizations to set up their <br>
> own virtual worlds under their control (so, their own grid'ed regions), <br>
> but if people have to get accounts with them to visit, this is just not <br>
> going to work for serious usages - period.<br>
<br>
Hence you've created the paradox. :)<br>
<br>
* We want everything connected<br>
* We don't want to trust a single authoritative source for info<br>
(otherwise you'd be on Second Life)<br>
<br>
Honestly, this is a hard problem to solve, and one that seems a bit<br>
beyond the current scope. That being said, implementations and research<br>
in this area which work with OpenSim are always welcomed.<br>
<br>
> I understand there's a ton of stability work to be done, but this <br>
> particular architectural decision is really important, even <br>
> (especially?) at this early stage; we all trust stability will happen <br>
> over time.<br>
> Is there anything that I can do to boost the efforts in that direction, <br>
> besides sending this email?<br>
<br>
Sample peer based User services that allow cross talk would be useful.<br>
The moral equivalent of OpenID for virtual worlds (because you need more<br>
than just what openid provides).<br>
<br>
-Sean<br>
<br>
-- <br>
__________________________________________________________________<br>
<br>
Sean Dague Mid-Hudson Valley<br>
sean at dague dot net Linux Users Group<br>
<a href="http://dague.net" target="_blank">http://dague.net</a> <a
href="http://mhvlug.org" target="_blank">http://mhvlug.org</a><br>
<br>
There is no silver bullet. Plus, werewolves make better neighbors<br>
than zombies, and they tend to keep the vampire population down.<br>
__________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
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