On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Cristina Videira Lopes <<a href="mailto:lopes@ics.uci.edu">lopes@ics.uci.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br> Hello Christine,<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Burnman,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Technically your comments are off, as Michael already pointed
out. They are so off that I think they are directed at the Open Sourced LL viewer,
i.e. at the ability for clients to get complete information about the
objects inworld to the point of being able to store them locally and to replicate
them. Note that this has nothing to do with OpenSim, strictly speaking. But let
me comment on that.</span><br></p></div></div></blockquote><div>Actually, there has been discussion in the OpenSim IRC channels as well as on this list about using client side asset storage for users to move from grid to grid with their inventory. THAT is what I was discussing. That DOES have to do with OpenSim. The libSL fiasco with CopyBot has nothing to do with what I am discussing.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">All clients get that information, or else they wouldn't be
able to render it; there is no way around that: a representation of the couch
you see on your screen must be sent to your computer, period. In a context
where you do want to show your objects to the world, ensuring that people don't
use the LL viewer to "steal" them is impossible with technology
alone.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div> I am aware of that. It's the same with a web page. The browser can't display what it can't see. Though PHP does a wonderful job to prevent people seeing the websites source code, since HTML is passed to the browser. This is one of the benefits of scripting in Second Life. It's run server side, stored server side, and the client doesn't get access to scripts it doesn't have permission to see.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Other contexts are possible, however. One could add a PGP
feature in which all inworld objects would be encrypted with their owner's
private key, so they looked like garbage for everyone, except for those clients
who had the object owner's public key. There's a neat research
project right there! I bet it could be added very easily :-)</span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">While the solution is technically feasible, what sense would it
make to go around the world seeing garbage everywhere?? Plus anyone who wanted
to see the decrypted objects would have to use an extended version of the LL
viewer, one that does decryption. Not to mention the added performance overhead.
… Again, I doubt massive adoption, but this could definitely be done,
technically.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>I am not sure how effective encryption would be... but it is an interesting thing to ponder.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I'm on the camp that thinks that these kinds of *<b>technological</b>*
solutions are silly, paranoid, and ultimately unreliable, because given enough
motivation to break the encryption, it will be broken. But at the same time I
have a lot of sympathy for your position. One cute thing about LL's SL is
that it enabled ordinary people to suddenly feel like famous entrepreneurs and millionaires,
simply by creating virtual objects that other people want.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>Cute? :D SL gained most of it's popularity because of that "cute" little concept. And while most people don't make that much money with their little virtual ventures... many of them at least cover their own expenses. That's more than most can say about their entertainment. The whole "own IP rights to your creations, have a business in SL" thing is probably where most of LL's success has come from.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This is part of the
fantasy-game designed by LL, along with the forced pseudonyms, the Linden "dollars",
etc. I understand you want to protect that feeling, and someone ought to
protect it. I sincerely hope that will survive in some grids, because it's
empowering! Technology is the wrong approach to do it, though, it has to be
something else.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div> I don't see how textures, or prims for that matter, will be truly protected with OpenSim... nor do I think with Second Life now that open-source is making it so much easier to steal people's IP. Scripts, however, are another matter. Client side storage negates what protection they currently have, however, which was my concern from the start of this conversation.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">However, if these fantasies are all there is to the metaverse, we'll
be in really bad shape. We might as well wrap-up OpenSim altogether, and let LL
continue to do its thing.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>While you may not really see people's little web ventures as more than fantasies... they are the driving force behind the expansion of LL's grid. Some of those "fantasies" are comprised of people paying thousands of dollars per month in tier and making profit beyond their cost as a result of their efforts. Should be interesting to see what happens to those people and the money they bring to SL as time moves on and projects like OS progress.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><off topic> </span>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The thought of going around a virtual world where everything is garbage
due to encryption is a powerful, almost artistic, visualization of real-world
paranoia and distrust. Picasso's Guernica comes to mind.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></off topic></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div>Hmmm... I think a better example of real-world paranoia and distrust would be television commercials. Products sold based on fear. You're not pretty enough unless you wear this make-up... you're not a man if you have grey hair... you're less of a person if your fat... etc etc. Protecting one's own property from people who are going to try and steal it one way or the other is human nature. Dying your hair is paranoia. :)<br>