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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>XMPP does presence very well. it does
coarse-grained events (especially, for example, updates of presence) very
well. it also has the advantage that the messages are typed. that means you
could extend it to carry useful VW-specific information like my avatar's current
location in order to implement local chat (or to pass currency or object
references or whatever...). but the current open-source implementations (there's
a great list on <A href="http://www.jabber.org">www.jabber.org</A>) don't scale
well on number of messages per second. the implementations were designed with IM
usages in mind (potentially a large number of users, very long sessions, and a
few messages per minutes at the most). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>XMPP
would clearly be good for IM and possibly local chat. it would work well for
cross-domain user presence (eg send IM's from osgrid to deepgrid, monitor
presence of friends across regions etc). it might actually work for advertising
regions & monitoring region presence. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>most
of the server implementations have pluggable authentication. that would make it
possible to separate the identity (and user authentication) pieces in one
service that was shared among regions & IM & whatever else you want.
translation: you could have one identity that was used to authenticate for
regions, assets, and IM. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>i
don't believe XMPP (or rather the current server implementations) would be a
good mechanism for distributing assets or for handling object/scene
updates. the current (open source) implementations just cant handle that
volume of traffic. the message formats might be useful, but i really haven't
looked through the list of XMPP extensions to find ones that would help
us.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>--mic</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=925525221-02112007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Michael
Wright<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 02, 2007 1:48 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Opensim-dev] Revising the
grid standards (Part II -Implementation details)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Yeah finding c# jabber/xmpp servers is a problem. There is one (that
doesn't look that complete) but its in c#' 3.0 so not really usable by us at the
moment. There are some c# xmpp client libraries (not completely sure the
licenses) so I guess its most likely a case of writing our own servers from
them. Or taking a java server and porting, which maybe the easiest
thing.<BR><BR>But, I think after reading mic's reply that we should drop the
idea of using XMPP for grid/user, as I think we need to listen to someone who
has had experience of using it. So we should just use it for IM's , as has been
the plan since very early in this project.<BR><BR><B><I>Sean Dague
<sean@dague.net></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">On
Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:43:54PM +0000, Michael Wright wrote:<BR>> When I
first mentioned XMPP it was just a throw out idea. But thinking<BR>> and
looking into it some more I actually think its got some plus<BR>> points.
But I don't think we should think about it for Assets (which I<BR>> think
REST is the correct thing for) and maybe not even inventory. I<BR>> was
thinking more User server and grid server.<BR><BR>My brain is starting to wrap
on this a bit more, and treating Regions<BR>and Users as just things with
presence via XMPP actually seems pretty<BR>interesting.<BR><BR>Could you
sketch out a bit more the way you think that would work?<BR><BR>> I really
don't think using REST because thats what LL use makes any<BR>> difference
as when they release specs we are going to have to have new<BR>>
implementation anyway. Please remember not everyone is interested in<BR>>
connecting to LL grid, so I think no matter what happens it most<BR>>
likely will be, that we end up with at least two implementations; our<BR>>
own and one compatible with their grid.<BR><BR>Agreed, and
understood.<BR><BR>> I think XMPP most likely will end up as easiest and
fastest to<BR>> implement and it includes a number of things that we
wouldn't need to<BR>> spend time on. But when it comes down to it, I'm not
fixed on the idea<BR>> enough to fight strongly for it. So if the general
opinion is for REST<BR>> for all. Then I'd go with that without a problem.
As long as we are<BR>> going with it for the right reasons and not the
compatible reason.<BR><BR>Presumably, regardless of how much XMPP will be in
OpenSim (i.e. just<BR>messaging or messaging + much more) we'll need XMPP
client / server<BR>classes in OpenSim anyway. So work in getting that into
tree and<BR>functional would be good regardless.<BR><BR>Fwiw, XMPP did come up
at last office hours re: IM, and steffan said<BR>something about there not
being nicely licensed library/server for C#.<BR>It would be good to make sure
we had that before getting on the XMPP<BR>bandwagon.<BR><BR>-Sean<BR><BR>--
<BR>__________________________________________________________________<BR><BR>Sean
Dague Mid-Hudson Valley<BR>sean at dague dot net Linux Users
Group<BR>http://dague.net http://mhvlug.org<BR><BR>There is no silver bullet.
Plus, werewolves make better neighbors<BR>than zombies, and they tend to keep
the vampire population
down.<BR>__________________________________________________________________<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Opensim-dev
mailing
list<BR>Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de<BR>https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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