[Opensim-dev] Still on Sim and Phys Frames per Second (FPS)
Glenn Martin
gamucf at gmail.com
Wed Nov 11 02:01:10 UTC 2015
Some do; some don't.
Glenn
Note: Sent from my cell phone. The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not reflect those of any other person or organization.
> On Nov 10, 2015, at 7:58 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>
> Correct. They also have FUNDING. The apache foundation has lot of
> paid permanent staff, as well as money for bounties and hired
> programmers.
>
> Of course they can have the luxury of a roadmap.
>
> Same goes for other projects that do that level of organization.
>
> - Melanie
>
>> On 11/11/2015 01:53, Glenn Martin wrote:
>> To me, this has always been the major weakness of open source software.
>> I've seen this on many other projects. There is a "core" in charge but,
>> ultimately, they focus only on things that they need for their work. When
>> somebody suggests a feature, the response is usually of the form "that
>> would be a great addition! If you could code that up, please submit it".
>> I completely understand the feeling there, but it's hard to build up a
>> major user base that way (the projects continue to stay in "toy" phase).
>>
>> The truly successful open source projects DO have a roadmap and they DO
>> code towards it. They are real projects that just happen to be open source.
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> NOTICE: The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not
>> reflect those of any other person or organization.
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You keep on about organizational things like a defined roadmap and
>>> documentation. These are things generally produced by organized and
>>> PAID bodies.
>>>
>>> Core is a team of developers who just as soon let the code do the
>>> talking. Few of us have any talent for doing big writeups and these
>>> few are doing other things that take up their time, mostly in academia.
>>>
>>> Core is consensus-based and there is no "boss" to set out a roadmap
>>> everyone else has to follow. We all volunteer our time and
>>> creativity for this project and to most of us, this is a
>>> recreational activity, not work.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, the project could profit from some guidance, but that
>>> same guidance would likely lead to a loss of active developers, as
>>> people who volunteer their time want to do what they like to do, not
>>> what some roadmap tells them to. This discussion has been had before.
>>>
>>> If it were at all possible, I would certainly take up that mantle,
>>> but that would dis-mantle the team as it stands now. The current
>>> team isn't interested in fulfilling expectations other than those of
>>> their own and the users they are working with.
>>>
>>> For most of the team, that is users of social virtual worlds who
>>> could care less about accurate stats, but do care about three green
>>> lights on the lag meter. They actually don't even care if the stats
>>> show 11 or 55, as long as the lag meter is green.
>>>
>>> I have had people (in other grids) tell me "This place is so
>>> laggy!". I then would move my avatar around to test responsiveness
>>> and find that there is no lag, so I would ask them "Why do you
>>> consider this laggy? I can't see any lag?" and get "The lag meter
>>> shows the sim is lagging" as a reply. These people, several people
>>> in multiple grids, then announced to be going back to SL where there
>>> is no lag.
>>>
>>> Go figure.
>>>
>>> We are there to make things work for the majority of our users.
>>> Sorry to say, MOSES and scientists are not a majority. The thousands
>>> of social grid users spread across all the virtual worlds are.
>>>
>>> - Melanie
>>>
>>>> On 11/11/2015 00:44, dz wrote:
>>>> I am astounded at how much of the dialogue about this issue you both
>>>> choose to ignore.
>>>>
>>>> Please publish the location of the ROADMAP of REAL CORE problems.... I
>>>> will be happy to attend the MOSES meetings and attempt to get those
>>>> issues on their agenda. Don't blame people for working on the things
>>>> that are important to them when that is the example set by core over a
>>> long
>>>> period. You expect people to help and then denegrate them for not
>>>> attacking the problems you REFUSE to document and share in public.
>>>>
>>>> When did MOSES get access to commit the patch??? The patch was
>>>> accepted after a significant amount of conversation... Everyone BUT
>>>> you and Melanie voted it +1... you can't rewrite the history and
>>> assert
>>>> that the problem is because MOSES committed a patch... CORE committed
>>> the
>>>> patch at the request of this community.
>>>>
>>>> I have repeatedly asked for the identification of these mysterious users
>>>> who are the source of this avalanche of complaints... I apologize for
>>>> assuming they resided on Melanies grid...
>>>> Now that I hear that her users aren't the source of the complaints
>>>> I'm left to wonder if there is ANY justification for reverting the
>>>> stats.. PLEASE share with the group what the source of these complaints
>>> is
>>>> so we can begin a dialogue. I participate in a LOT of OpenSim related
>>>> forums just for that purpose... I haven't seen any of the noise
>>>> that is supposedly deafening.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming "they" truly are upset, I haven't herd a peep about why it
>>> is
>>>> appropriate for some backroom decision to override the consensus built
>>> in
>>>> this forum over a period of months.
>>>> I'm sorry, I've tried repeatedly to figure out WHY it is important to
>>>> revert, and all I keep hearing is "Melanie didnt know it would
>>> affect a
>>>> lag meter".. This argument was extended to include " We have to
>>>> accommodate users of viewers that are NO LONGER being maintained"...
>>>> HOW in the world can that be a viable position for you to defend Neb,
>>>> when your rant was directed at the importance of moving forward with
>>>> viewer developers or we are dead...??
>>>>
>>>> I really am trying to figure this out, but all I see as responses
>>> is
>>>> "You are wrong, I changed my mind, it is import to someone who
>>>> still hasn't spoken on this list" The whole point of this list is to
>>>> share the issues that are important.... Given the volume of traffic on
>>> the
>>>> subject, it obviously is. Please share some REAL information about
>>>> the actual impact so we can re-evaluate the needs of the WHOLE
>>> community.
>>>> We don't know WHO is complaining,, We HAVE heard that you can
>>>> turn the blinking lights into numeric representations ( even in the OLD
>>>> meters), We HAVE heard that there is a JIRA for the viewer team to
>>>> remove/update the functioning of the lag meter.. Everyone agrees
>>> that
>>>> the lag meter cant possibly be correct so I find it impossible to
>>>> believe that it is INTEGRAL to the success of Opensim. All of use
>>> who
>>>> wanted accurate stats could be wrong, but I'd sure like to know
>>> WHY,
>>>> not just have someone pronounce we are and implement yet another
>>>> obscure INI variable..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
>>>> nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doug I participated in MOSES grid as well and my experience there was
>>>>> terrible, far worse performance than i experienced in any other grid, I
>>>>> took part in the FCVW build and planning and experienced a multitude of
>>>>> problems on MOSES platform that just do not exist in the core
>>> opensimulator
>>>>> software. And this is what I mean by chasing ghosts, MOSES is fixing
>>> bugs
>>>>> in MOSES for MOSES that just do not exist in the core software. You can
>>>>> feel however you want and if you feel embarrassed then go work on MOSES
>>>>> software, no one is stopping you. I do agree though that this whole
>>> thing
>>>>> is quite a huge embarrassment for the project. It still does not change
>>>>> the fact that to date no improvements have come from this change and all
>>>>> its done is cause arguments, the reason their code was not accepted is
>>>>> because it was not suitable for core, end of story. They wanted us to
>>>>> accept patches unconditionally and sorry, that is not going to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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