[Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dahlia Trimble dahliatrimble at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 23:38:00 UTC 2015 

My apologies for upsetting you, Frank. Perhaps it was the use of the phrase
"academic dishonesty" which influenced my prior message.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Frank Nichols <j.frank.nichols at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Jezz, seriously, this is how you expect to garner serious support from
> people that can advance OS beyond being a toy that a few people play with.
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> It is indeed unfortunate that questionable results may have been
> propagated. Please bear in mind that few, if any, developers of
> OpenSimulator have committed to producing a software which is intended for
> such purposes. There are likely many artifices in OpenSimulator and in 3D
> graphics applications in general. I would *strongly suggest* that those who
> attempt to use the software for such purposes take responsibility for
> understanding the applicability of this software for their purposes.
>
> I will also suggest that a review of the license for OpenSimulator might
> be in order, quoted here for your convenience:
>
>
>  * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
>  * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are
> met:
>  *     * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
>  *       notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
>  *     * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyrightD
>  *       notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in
> the
>  *       documentation and/or other materials provided with the
> distribution.
>  *     * Neither the name of the OpenSimulator Project nor the
>  *       names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote
> products
>  *       derived from this software without specific prior written
> permission.
>  *
>  * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS ``AS IS'' AND ANY
>  * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
> IMPLIED
>  * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE
>  * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY
>  * DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
> DAMAGES
>  * (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR
> SERVICES;
>  * LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED
> AND
>  * ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR
> TORT
>  * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE
> OF THIS
>  * SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE."
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>
>>  Good design principles reduce complexity while maintaining or
>> increasing functionality.  I am not in support of the idea of introducing
>> multiplier variables into the ini file.  This is for a number of reasons,
>> one being there are a large number of multiplier variables that could be
>> needed and the ini file is already complicated enough.  Adding more
>> variables and code, rather than fixing bad code is not a responsible
>> solution.
>>
>>
>> This is a gut-check opportunity for the devs.  At some point in the past,
>> somebody made the decision to artificially inflate these numbers and now
>> (years later), that mistake has caught up with us.  The longer you wait,
>> the more painful the correction will be.  It should be corrected, and any
>> monitoring tools updated.  It is the responsible course of action.
>>
>>
>> We are attempting to help you by addressing physics and networking issues
>> within the Open Simulator.  Step Zero of this process is trusting the
>> simulator statistics.
>>
>>  Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center
>> (c) (407) 242-0209 <%28407%29%20242-0209>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [
>> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] on behalf of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni [nebadon2025 at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2015 8:59 PM
>>
>> *To:* opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>>   What do you think about making the multiplier a modifiable variable in
>> OpenSim.ini?  This will allow anyone who wants to improve performance and
>> use the stock #'s and in the meantime people can continue to use the code
>> in a meaningful way without having to rewrite scripts and monitoring tools
>> to continue testing other code that may be pushed into core, especially if
>> the end goal is to get statistics to report back at the original numbers?
>> I am mostly just trying to understand the end goal myself.  If that is not
>> possible I would suggest this work be moved into a development branch until
>> we can get statistics back to the normal numbers again?  Otherwise we are
>> talking about locking the code down to all other development until this
>> process is complete, and no one has discussed any kind of time frame for
>> this level of changes to complete, I would hate to put a complete halt to
>> development in order for this to happen.  I am not against doing what you
>> suggest, I just want to make sure we do it in the most efficient way
>> possible.  Would be good to hear what others in the core development have
>> to say, hopefully Justin and Diva and Melanie, Misterblue, BlueWall, you
>> guys can chime in here as well, as I am only one person here and for the
>> record just voicing my own concerns, I am far from the final say on any of
>> this stuff.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks, before we can make any meaningful progress in performance
>>> enhancements to the open simulator we have to be able to rely on the
>>> simulator statistics.  Currently they are (purposefully) misreported to
>>> make the simulator look like it is performing better than it really is.
>>> This is not acceptable if we are to dig in and begin to assist.
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center
>>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [
>>> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] on behalf of
>>> Melanie [melanie at t-data.com
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56 PM
>>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>
>>> It is also my opinion that this change isn't fit for core. If and
>>> when additional stats, like "real fps" and "physics engine fps" can
>>> be shown in the viewer, then that would be good but the viewer stats
>>> window should continue to show the fudged figures indefinitely. This
>>> is because people don't only use scripts but also bots to do
>>> monitoring and bots receive the same data the viewer receives.
>>>
>>> - Melanie
>>>
>>> On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote:
>>> > ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
>>> > 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be
>>> using
>>> > monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the
>>> region,
>>> > we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
>>> > accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
>>> > project as a whole.
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
>>> > nebadon2025 at gmail.com
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>>> >> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>>> >> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>>> >> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps
>>> before
>>> >> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test
>>> this
>>> >> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US)
>>> <
>>> >> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>>> >>>
>>> >>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> >>> still
>>> >>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation
>>> guidance
>>> >>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want
>>> this
>>> >>> done -
>>> >>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> v/r -douglas
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> >>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> >>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> >>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> >>> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of
>>> Michael Emory
>>> >>> Cerquoni
>>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> >>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>> >>>
>>> >>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for
>>> testing,
>>> >>> thanks
>>> >>> guys!
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <
>>> mheilman at ist.ucf.edu
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>         Opensim Devs
>>> >>>
>>> >>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission
>>> from
>>> >>> project
>>> >>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>         --
>>> >>>         Michael Heilmann
>>> >>>         Research Associate
>>> >>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>> >>>         University of Central Florida
>>> >>>
>>> >>>         _______________________________________________
>>> >>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> >>>         Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> >>>
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> >>> <blockedhttp://
>>> opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>>> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
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