[Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
James Hughes
jamesh at bluewallgroup.com
Sat Apr 25 05:02:12 UTC 2015
Hi All,
I'm not sure what the historical reasons are for using the multipliers.
If we are sure it's not affecting viewer functions then we only need to
worry about automated monitoring systems, etc. that depend on current
values. Although we try our best to keep the platform stable, we do make
breaking changes from time to time to improve the useability. These
changes would be brought into master, giving most users ample time to
make adjustments. Those running master for testing and development can
expect infrequent breaking changes and make adjustments in their
applications.
If these changes move us forward and allow better monitoring, then I'm
+1 for changing them.
-BlueWall
On Sat, 2015-04-25 at 00:08 -0400, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote:
> It is more than just bots that worry me, many people have written
> custom monitoring tools to monitor region performance to automatically
> restart regions, not to mention script that could potentially rely on
> osGetRegionStats > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsGetRegionStats we
> could be potentially breaking all of this content if we are talking
> about long term leaving the statistics at these lower numbers, if we
> are talking about eventually having them resume to the normal levels
> etc.. that is something else, and if that is the case I would suggest
> we start a new branch for that work that would eventually merge into
> master once the work was complete. Like i said I am not against doing
> this work, but not at the expense of causing mass chaos amongst
> important users and testers of this software, how can we say we are
> improving the software if we are rushing into breaking stuff people
> may be very reliant on.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:01 AM, Diva Canto <diva at metaverseink.com>
> wrote:
> I'm +1 on the changes. I find it very unsettling to be shown a
> physics fps that is incorrect, and some of my students have
> been very confused about it in the past. I don't think the
> changes will affect bots in any significant way, but if
> someone can point me to a bot that will be affected, I would
> like to know.
>
>
> On 4/24/2015 6:23 PM, Dahlia Trimble wrote:
>
> > I like the idea of a multiplier for physics fps, however I
> > see no need for altering the value. If a reported number is
> > linearly scaled, then any change in that number is also
> > scaled proportionally. For example, if I have 55 fps
> > reported for a real fps of 11 due to a scale factor of 5,
> > all I need to do is divide by 5 to get the 11 back. If the
> > 55 decreases by 10%, the 11 will also decrease by 10%. It
> > really shouldn't matter as either value will provide the
> > same indication of change in performance.
> >
> >
> > As far as SL compatibility goes, I usually see a physics fps
> > of 45 for a well running region in SL, not 55. In that case
> > if such compatibility was desired, the factor would be 45/11
> > or approximately 4.1 rather than 5.
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni
> > <nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Also sounds like a reasonable solution as well, If
> > the goal is to improve performance in general I am
> > not sure it matters what is actually reported to the
> > viewer , since i would assume any kind of real
> > analysis would be done on the back end and not via
> > the viewer #'s
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Mike Chase
> > <mike.chase at alternatemetaverse.com> wrote:
> > Why not just introduce a new counter and
> > function to fetch the value. The current
> > one can always return the SL adjusted value.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > On 04/24/2015 08:59 PM, Michael Emory
> > Cerquoni wrote:
> >
> > > What do you think about making the
> > > multiplier a modifiable variable in
> > > OpenSim.ini? This will allow anyone who
> > > wants to improve performance and use the
> > > stock #'s and in the meantime people can
> > > continue to use the code in a meaningful
> > > way without having to rewrite scripts and
> > > monitoring tools to continue testing other
> > > code that may be pushed into core,
> > > especially if the end goal is to get
> > > statistics to report back at the original
> > > numbers? I am mostly just trying to
> > > understand the end goal myself. If that
> > > is not possible I would suggest this work
> > > be moved into a development branch until
> > > we can get statistics back to the normal
> > > numbers again? Otherwise we are talking
> > > about locking the code down to all other
> > > development until this process is
> > > complete, and no one has discussed any
> > > kind of time frame for this level of
> > > changes to complete, I would hate to put a
> > > complete halt to development in order for
> > > this to happen. I am not against doing
> > > what you suggest, I just want to make sure
> > > we do it in the most efficient way
> > > possible. Would be good to hear what
> > > others in the core development have to
> > > say, hopefully Justin and Diva and
> > > Melanie, Misterblue, BlueWall, you guys
> > > can chime in here as well, as I am only
> > > one person here and for the record just
> > > voicing my own concerns, I am far from the
> > > final say on any of this stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell,
> > > Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US)
> > > <douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> > > Folks, before we can make any
> > > meaningful progress in performance
> > > enhancements to the open simulator
> > > we have to be able to rely on the
> > > simulator statistics. Currently
> > > they are (purposefully)
> > > misreported to make the simulator
> > > look like it is performing better
> > > than it really is. This is not
> > > acceptable if we are to dig in and
> > > begin to assist.
> > >
> > > Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> > > Science and Technology Manager
> > > Virtual World Strategic
> > > Applications
> > > U.S. Army Research Lab
> > > Human Research & Engineering
> > > Directorate
> > > Simulation & Training Technology
> > > Center
> > > (c) (407) 242-0209
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From:
> > > opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] on behalf of Melanie [melanie at t-data.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56
> > > PM
> > > To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES
> > > patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
> > >
> > > It is also my opinion that this
> > > change isn't fit for core. If and
> > > when additional stats, like "real
> > > fps" and "physics engine fps" can
> > > be shown in the viewer, then that
> > > would be good but the viewer stats
> > > window should continue to show the
> > > fudged figures indefinitely. This
> > > is because people don't only use
> > > scripts but also bots to do
> > > monitoring and bots receive the
> > > same data the viewer receives.
> > >
> > > - Melanie
> > >
> > > On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory
> > > Cerquoni wrote:
> > > > ok so just so I understand we
> > > should now see this actually just
> > > display
> > > > 11fps? Personally I think this
> > > is a bad idea, alot of people may
> > > be using
> > > > monitoring apps and scripts that
> > > look for low fps and restart the
> > > region,
> > > > we would basically be forcing
> > > everyone to rewrite a lot of code
> > > to
> > > > accommodate a singular purpose?
> > > Not quite sure how this improves
> > > the
> > > > project as a whole.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM,
> > > Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> > > > nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> ok I will continue testing this
> > > for now, we should try to resolve
> > > the
> > > >> white space issues before it
> > > hits core, we can worry about that
> > > later
> > > >> though. I hope others can start
> > > testing this patch as well we need
> > > to
> > > >> really make sure this does not
> > > break any scripts or monitoring
> > > apps before
> > > >> this changes the core code, so
> > > anyone who has the time please do
> > > test this
> > > >> and let us know if you notice
> > > anything change or break, thanks!
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38
> > > PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY
> > > ARL (US) <
> > > >> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > > >>> Caveats: NONE
> > > >>>
> > > >>> What you saw were just
> > > warnings about white spaces. The
> > > patch should
> > > >>> still
> > > >>> apply and work. We follows
> > > the open simulator patch creation
> > > guidance
> > > >>> explicitly, if you guys have
> > > updated instructions for how you
> > > want this
> > > >>> done -
> > > >>> let us know. Otherwise, you
> > > can ignore the warnings.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> v/r -douglas
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> > > >>> Science and Technology Manager
> > > >>> Virtual World Strategic
> > > Applications
> > > >>> U.S. Army Research Lab
> > > >>> Simulation & Training
> > > Technology Center (STTC)
> > > >>> (c) (407) 242-0209
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From:
> > > opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
> > > >>>
> > > [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> > > >>> Cerquoni
> > > >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015
> > > 2:38 PM
> > > >>> To:
> > > opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev]
> > > MOSES patch submitted
> > > >>>
> > > >>> please check the mantis, i had
> > > some trouble applying patch for
> > > testing,
> > > >>> thanks
> > > >>> guys!
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30
> > > PM, Michael Heilmann
> > > <mheilman at ist.ucf.edu>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Opensim Devs
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just an FYI, mantis
> > > bug #7540 is the first code
> > > submission from
> > > >>> project
> > > >>> MOSES. Thanks.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Michael Heilmann
> > > >>> Research Associate
> > > >>> Institute for
> > > Simulation and Training
> > > >>> University of Central
> > > Florida
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Opensim-dev mailing
> > > list
> > > >>>
> > > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > >>>
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > > >>>
> > > <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > > >>> Caveats: NONE
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> > > >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > >>>
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > > > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > >
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael Emory Cerquoni
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Emory Cerquoni
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
More information about the Opensim-dev
mailing list