[Opensim-dev] thinking about a viewer

Thu Aug 7 07:05:48 UTC 2014

I highly recommend that we avoid trying to start a viewer project from
scratch. Doing so without a dedicated group working full time for an
extended period of time will result in the viewer project's failure and the
growing irrelevance of the OpenSim project that will pend the availability
of this modern viewer.

I suggest we either adopt and extend the realXtend project for our needs
(with or without its server architecture) or invest our collective R&D
resources towards pushing High Fidelity in the direction we want it to
evolve to. These liberally-licensed open source projects have already had
many developer-years worth of effort invested in them and are actively
developed by more people than are currently contributing to the OpenSim
codebase. It would be very unwise IMO to spend years reimplementing the
type of viewer they already have working.

Cheers,

Ilan Tochner
Co-Founder and CEO
Kitely Ltd.

On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:

> some important things I think are essential to a next generation viewer I
> would like to see
>
>    - streaming audio (shoutcast or equivalent)
>    - streaming video (quicktime/gstreamer or equivalent)
>    - voice chat (mumble?)
>    - MOAP (media on a prim) the ability to embed websites / youtube etc..
>    on geometry surface or texture overlay
>    - Lighting and Skies (Windlight Analog or equivalent or better)
>    perhaps ability to change the moon and sun with better textures or even
>    mesh objects.
>    - Animated Water perhaps that can be manipulated by physical objects
>    (bluemars had this)
>    - Viewer based AO (we need to kill scripted AO's for good)
>    - Particle System (Better weather ie: rain,snow with exclusion zones
>    so its not snowing in my living room :) also 3D particle support ie better
>    grass and cool effects.
>    - better avatar skeleton support, quadrupeds+ etc..
>    - improved bump mapping and specular support, ability to animate
>    materials same as textures can be animated
>    - optional viewer side physics support, better vehicles, joints, axles
>    be nice to have suspension and just better vehicles in general
>    - better joystick, mouse, keyboard, HID support, ability to bind keys
>    like a normal video game would allow.
>    - import / export of content in various formats ie: IARs and XML and
>    various mesh formats not just collada, perhaps KML
>    - improved hypergrid integration HOP:// or equivalent new format
>    - Floaters and Windows not bound by viewer window, can put floaters
>    outside of main window or on second screen (good for machinima)
>
>    these are just some of the things I would like to so, I am sure I will
>    eventually think of more, some of these are probably more important than
>    others but I think they all are important to take things to the next level
>    so to speak.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Butch Arnold <butch.arnold at 3rdrockgrid.com
> > wrote:
>
>>  Hello All,
>>
>> I This is a great discussion and many great opinions.
>>
>> I think there will be an endless amount of opinions and desires as
>> OpenSim can be many different things to many people.
>> While most users of opensim can write/edit simple scripts, upload
>> textures, create simple textures, build simple prim based objects - there
>> are a great many who prefer to simply explore and be entertained by those
>> who can do these things.
>>
>> I myself am more interested in the "Server" side of things - I rarely
>> venture into OpenSim worlds but to troubleshoot and experiment with new
>> ideas, etc.
>>
>> I think the underlying ability of OpenSim to serve data when requested
>> and to provide all of the other services it does should be leveraged in a
>> way that an opensim "Virgin" will find interesting, entertaining, and easy
>> to use.
>>
>> With that said, I think OpenSim would become more popular to the masses
>> if we had a simple "No Frills" web viewer of sorts.
>> I know, I know... web viewer.. hack cough, etc.... but really think about
>> it.
>>
>> OpenSim as it is now is a very complicated affair if you are not already
>> familiar with SL or OpenSim.
>> The viewer itself is a very daunting piece of software to use if you are
>> a new user to these types of platforms.
>>
>> If we could make a viable web based viewer which is designed to be a
>> "First time user" viewer I think it would bring many more people into our
>> platform.
>> Once they've experienced our worlds by simply exploring, they will then
>> become interested in further tasks such as building, scripting, etc.
>> This would then drive them to "Try" a "Full" viewer, or one that is
>> capable of all that we are now used to.
>>
>> This viewer would not need to be as complicated as the viewers we use now
>> and could be a very good starting point.
>> Not only would this provide us as a community with a split from SL, but
>> it would provide a solid foundation on which to expand this simple viewer
>> into a more robust viewer.
>> The successful completion of this smaller project would then drive more
>> users to our worlds and may also bring more interest in the development
>> side from some who have sat on the fence thus far.
>>
>> The truth is, this platform seems to be for those of us who are a bit
>> more technically inclined - "Grandma Sharon" in Washington State would
>> never venture into our worlds as she would be terrified of the complexity
>> of any of our available viewers, but if she could simply click a link and
>> it work in her web browser she too would find it very entertaining.
>> She may never build, script, texture, etc... but she would for sure enjoy
>> some of the events, the socializing and exploring of our worlds.
>>
>> I think OpenSim should try to free itself from the bonds of SL for sure,
>> but we should also try in some way to make our worlds more accessible to
>> "Virgin" users.
>>
>> If you want revolutionary... OpenSim already is a very capable platform,
>> but one which has been designed around a "Purpose Built" viewer - if we
>> wanted to start fresh we could make a completely new viewer which uses the
>> OpenSim platform to store and serve data to a viewer which is nothing like
>> what we are currently used to - one with say much better graphics.
>>
>> If we do any new viewer in a modular way - it should be easy for others
>> to produce "plugins" or "Modules" to do more interesting tasks.
>>
>> Just my thoughts.
>>
>> Butch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/4/2014 9:08 PM, Mister Blue wrote:
>>
>> I've been seriously thinking about creating a new viewer project. But
>> with Maria's survey[1] and all the different virtual world announcements
>> happening and the lively OpenSimulator vs Unity discussion on the
>> opensim-user list, I'd like to open up the discussion to the OpenSimulator
>> development community[2].
>>
>>  LL is making a new world and viewer (closed and proprietary as far as I
>> know). HighFidelity is making a new world and viewer (open source with
>> commercial 'grid services'). Unity 5 will have a multi-platform web viewer
>> and a new multi-user backend (pricing not announced). There are various
>> wonderful open source virtual world projects (realXtend, Virtual World
>> Framework, ...) as well as many emerging technologies (xml3d, html5,
>> asm.js). There are several forks of OpenSimulator (Aurora, ArribaSim, ...)
>> that have made many enhancements to the base system. Add to that several
>> successful virtual worlds build on OpenSimulator (inWorldz, Anvination,
>> Kitely, ...) as well as a few packaged distributions of OpenSimulator
>> (Diva, ...). Add to that the many SL/OpenSim third party viewers based on
>> the LL viewer. And that's just in our sphere. There is much more happening
>> in the gaming and education and training communities.
>>
>>  So, what could a new viewer add to the mix? Whatever a new view does,
>> it approaches the question of what OpenSimulator should be three years from
>> now.
>>
>>  For me, there are two basic choices[3]: evolutionary change or
>> revolutionary change.
>>
>>  Evolutionary change says to build on existing OpenSimulator. Make due
>> with the existing LLLP (Linden Lab Legacy Protocol) and improve vehicles,
>> make installation and use easier and add an easier to use and improve
>> viewer.
>>
>>  Revolutionary change would be striking off on a new virtual world
>> architecture. It could have LLLP support but only for downward
>> compatibility and to keep that community and content. But other questions
>> arise: How would one build a viewer/virtual world where a HiFi avatar could
>> stand next to a SL avatar? How could content be delivered to a viewer so it
>> is displayable but is not in the original, copyable form? How to leverage
>> the distribution and power of 'the cloud'[4]? How could one make
>> hypergridable grids across the many virtual worlds?
>>
>>  What do you  think? Evolution or revolution?
>>
>>  -- mb
>>
>>  [1]
>> http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/08/survey-better-vehicles-search-most-wanted-in-opensim/
>>  [2] I see this expanding to other forums eventually.
>>  [3] With a lot of gray area in between
>> [4] I'm always amazed by Google Maps -- it displays the map with traffic
>> overlays and I can zoom in and out with almost immediate response. Why
>> can't a virtual world viewer do that?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing listOpensim-dev at opensimulator.orghttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://opensimulator.org/pipermail/opensim-dev/attachments/20140807/4b1e6815/attachment.html>