[Opensim-dev] Error detection when storing an asset

Mon Apr 21 15:58:44 UTC 2014

Jim,

"I know what a C++ object is better than you do."

That may well be the case but OpenSimulator is written in C# not C++

On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Jim Williams <sphere1952 at gmail.com> wrote:

> No!  The lower level code should return what happened, and there is
> nothing which is "exceptional" except some children; which is the right way
> to view the notion of exceptions -- dim-witted.  Given that the stupid idea
> was invented, I must admit that sometimes there is no real choice but to
> accept the crappy code and propagate the crap -- but there is no reason to
> do so willingly.  The try/catch scheme is bad practice.  How to deal with
> the crap that is out there is a matter which can be discussed, but not with
> the notion that is was done right to begin with.
>
> It goes along with thinking that objects are somehow special.  Took me
> years to figure out that objects were simply good programming practice with
> a bit of crap tossed in to confuse people.  (BTW-- I worked at Object
> Design.  I know what a C++ object is better than you do.)
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Mike Chase <
> mike.chase at alternatemetaverse.com> wrote:
>
>> That's a shame but I understand.  I don't understand the resistance to
>> what I guess I consider good programming practice because there seems to be
>> concern about "fixing" code that might be effected.  IMO lower level code
>> should throw exceptions if something exceptional happens and let the upper
>> levels decide to retry or report the error.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [mailto:
>> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] *On Behalf Of *Oren Hurvitz
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2014 10:54 AM
>> *To:* opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Error detection when storing an asset
>>
>>
>>
>> James, the only philosophical concern that I've heard is a desire to hide
>> errors and present a false facade of 100% success to users. This was
>> obfuscated by an attempt to claim that the errors could someday be fixed
>> automatically, but that doesn't actually happen in today's OpenSim so it's
>> not a valid point. Since I respect my users and value their time I have to
>> let them know when I've failed to complete an action that they requested,
>> so I reject this approach.
>>
>> A second possible objection is a practical one: will propagating
>> exceptions cause other parts of the code, unrelated to the assets service,
>> to fail? I don't know the answer to that, but I still refuse to pretend
>> success in cases where I've failed.
>>
>> For these reasons, I have changed Kitely to propagate exceptions thrown
>> in the communications system; it is already done. If this causes problems
>> then I will see them and fix them. But in view of the surprising and
>> vigorous opposition to this change I will not be contributing it to OpenSim.
>>
>> Oren
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 5:43 PM, James Stallings II <
>> james.stallings at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Parhaps it would be interesting to hear whether Oren has obtained to some
>> elegant way of addressing these concerns.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 11:08 PM, Trinity <trinity93 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Im in mels camp on this one.
>>
>> Trinity Bays
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>>
>> These "other places" are what I'm worried about. There are a lot of them
>> and each of them would need to have code added. Exception handling code is
>> one of the worst types of code because the "try" is a scope, so locals
>> devlared in the try, like bool result = MethodToTry(); will have to be
>> split up into declaring the bool outside the scope and assigning it inside
>> - incredibly ugly for code that wants to be reference and teaching code as
>> well as a functioning system.
>>
>> - Melanie
>>
>>
>> On 19 Apr 2014, at 08:02, Oren Hurvitz <orenh at kitely.com> wrote:
>>
>> My fix has two parts.
>>
>> The first is that the Store() operation needs to understand failures
>> correctly. There has been a consensus that it should, so I'll add that to
>> Git.
>>
>> The second is that MakeRequest() should propagate exceptions, instead of
>> just returning null (which is what it does now). So far there have been 3
>> votes for this (me, Mike Chase, and Justin) and 2 against (Melanie, Diva).
>> That's very close; does anyone else want to make their position known?
>>
>> Next, I see that there's confusion in this discussion about what happens
>> in Store() if MakeRequest() throws an exception. And the answer is, nothing
>> will be different, because Store() already correctly catches exceptions.
>> That is precisely how it should work: the low-level communications system
>> reports when it has failed, and higher levels (that know the business value
>> of the call) decide how to handle it. However, MakeRequest() is called from
>> other places as well and they might need to be changed to handle exceptions
>> better.
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Oren Hurvitz
>> VP R&D
>> Kitely Ltd.
>>
>> Email: orenh at kitely.com
>>
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>
>
> --
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