[Opensim-dev] Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 65, Issue 7
Dave Gubser
gubser at dynacee.com
Wed Jan 9 17:56:11 UTC 2013
Re: This may not be the place to post this, however....may be of interest to
all that follow this thread.
Opensimulator / Second Life non-server based NPC? (Dahlia Trimble stated at
the bottom of her second video - "Here's a demo of an auto-navigating
(SERVER-SIDE) NPC character", which implies the npc is driven by a engine
attached to the server. (ie server side engine and needed access to the
server to impliment navigation.) On the other hand, the navigation system I
built does not require a plug in be installed on the server. It does all the
mapping and navigating by itself (think of an external browser with
capabilities to map and navigate any Opensimulator or Second Life simulator,
allowing the NPC(s) to perform tasks and requires less bandwidth and server
power than a normal Avatar.) Both approaches to NPC navigation have merit
and the work involved is non-trivial. Functional NPCs (not the server power
hogging mess Second Life came out with.) will give Opensim "Content"
capabilites whereby NPCs, going about their business, will enrich the user
experience. Picture transporting to a simulation of a 13th century village
and finding "nobody" there. Now picture the same village with NPCs filling
rolls until their human owners come in and take control of the NPCs body, ie
standard virtual world human interaction. Have to run... My 5 yr. old is
screaming for help.... she's busy flinging arrows at the NPC dragon
attacking her village!! :)
Dave Gubser
-----Original Message-----
From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of
opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:17 PM
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 65, Issue 7
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL module
(What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand)
2. Thread.Abort() considered harmful (Justin Clark-Casey)
3. Opensimulator / Second Life non-server based NPC navigation
(Dave Gubser)
4. Re: Opensimulator / Second Life non-server based NPC
navigation (Dahlia Trimble)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 23:29:55 +0100
From: "What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand" <guy at whatvirtualworld.com>
To: <opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL
module
Message-ID: <3A9F5DC3D0AB482BABCC0EAA16B24E71 at MARGRIET>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Thanks Justin,
I found it was the search/profile module not any other as i had recompiled
dtl allready.
I still have to see if it works now, but i had no errors after removing the
search and profile dll's.
These 2 dll's where automaticly copied to the folder for setting up the
simulator allong with all proper ini files.
Still the dtl module is not working but we got a step forward, they probably
need the profile module to work properly.
Will do some more testing will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for everything.
Best regards,
Martin Forster
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Clark-Casey" <jjustincc at googlemail.com>
To: <opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL module
>I suspect the compiled DTL/NSL module is looking for Mono.Addins v0.5
>whereas recent changes now mean that Mono.Addins v0.6 is shipped.
>
> If this is so, you really either need to recompile the DTL/NSL module (or
> ask the authors to do so in preparation for the final release of 0.7.5),
> or redirect the DTL/NSL assembly [1] to load the 0.6 module even though
> it's looking for 0.5 (or ask the authors). I can't say for sure if this
> will work though there's a good chance.
>
> [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/twy1dw1e%28v=vs.90%29.aspx
>
> On 07/01/13 01:31, James Hughes wrote:
>> Yes, please paste a full error output on pastebin.com and the link here.
>> Be sure no passwords or other sensitive
>> information is included.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> BlueWall
>>
>> On 01/06/2013 05:32 PM, What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand wrote:
>>> Hello James,
>>>
>>> I have been searching for additinal dll''s in system paths, none found.
>>> I am using the Mono.addons from the opensimulator, and no the module
>>> does not come with its own version.
>>> Personaly i dont think the module is failing as i get the same error on
>>> a fresh ( without anny aditional modules ) opensim 0.7.5 rc1.
>>> My effort you point out below was that i replaced the effected files
>>> from git changes on this subject to see if i get it running.
>>> I am probably over 30 hours now trying to solve this isue, that is why i
>>> called out for help as i cant pinpoint this isue.
>>> I even tried to use the .config files from 0.7.3 as they where
>>> different.. also no solution.
>>>
>>> Strange thing is that the older git 13c4fd7 is running fine.
>>> I cant find any other mono.addin* files in any path that could be
>>> accesed, i dont know if the mono.addins search locations by them selfs?
>>> The robust is running just fine, only the simulator is giving this
>>> error.
>>> ( i asume this error couses all external modules to not load, as i dont
>>> have this error on the win7 box and modules are working there just
>>> fine )
>>>
>>> If you need a full error output, please let me know.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Martin forster
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Hughes"
>>> <jamesh at bluewallgroup.com>
>>> To: <opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 8:57 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL
>>> module
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 01/06/2013 09:15 AM, What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand wrote:
>>>>> Hello all.. hope to post this to the right section.
>>>>> I have been trying to update our beta simulators to 0.7.5 rc1.
>>>>> It seems it has a problem at the mono.addins.
>>>>> Error log(part):
>>>>> log4net:ERROR DefaultRepositorySelector: Unhandled exception in
>>>>> GetInfoForAssembly
>>>>> System.IO.FileLoadException: Could not load file or assembly
>>>>> 'Mono.Addins, Versi
>>>>> on=0.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=0738eb9f132ed756' or one
>>>>> of
>>>>> its depe
>>>>> ndencies. The located assembly's manifest definition does not match
>>>>> the
>>>>> assembly
>>>>> reference. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80131040)
>>>>> File name: 'Mono.Addins, Version=0.5.0.0, Culture=neutral,
>>>>> PublicKeyToken=0738eb......
>>>>
>>>> Can you see any other copies of Mono.Addins in the path on that
>>>> system, or does the module distribute it's own version of them?
>>>>
>>>>> I have done next:
>>>>> replaced :
>>>>> bin/Mono.Addins.CecilReflector.dll
>>>>> bin/Mono.Addins.Setup.dll
>>>>> bin/Mono.Addins.dll
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mono Addins have been updated to support some new capabilities on the
>>>> Robust server.
>>>>
>>>> The distributed versions are what should work. Changing them might
>>>> cause further issues. First, let's see if there are additional copies
>>>> around. Also, if you remove that module, does it report the error?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> BlueWall
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> OSVW Consulting
> http://justincc.org
> http://twitter.com/justincc
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 01:42:33 +0000
From: Justin Clark-Casey <jjustincc at googlemail.com>
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: [Opensim-dev] Thread.Abort() considered harmful
Message-ID: <50ECCB09.8060503 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Over the past couple of months, I have been struggling with an issue where
mono 2.10.8 would sometimes crash badly on a
heavily loaded simulator (2000+ scripts). Symptoms are 100% cpu use,
simulator locking up with all threads waiting on a
lock which no other thread holds or crashing with native stack trace
From analysis, this seems to be due to the use of Thread.Abort() to
terminate script threads whose events do not
complete within a short (or sometimes no) timeout. This is used in llDie()
and llResetOtherScript(), amongst other things.
The use of Thread.Abort() is considered harmful, leading to the kind of
system instability described above [1] [2] [3],
etc. This affects scripts running in both separate AppDomains and the same
AppDomain, since script functions constantly
reach into core OpenSimulator code.
One could extend the timeout, but there is a tradeoff with timely script
stopping. Also, even a large timeout would not
guarantee that threads would not be aborted.
Therefore, I will probably soon investigate a mechanism for stopping scripts
without calling Thread.Abort(). This will
probably involve the use of Thread.Interrupt() for Sleeps and the insertion
of 'should I stop' flag checks in generated
code where that code may be long running (e.g. control structures for, goto,
etc. and user defined functions). This is
the normal approach one would take to co-operatively stop threads and avoid
the chance of leaving Mono/.NET in a bad state.
The existing Thread.Abort mechanisms will remain default until this approach
is shown not to have significant
bugs/problems. However, I think in the long term we have to stop using
Thread.Abort() by default since it is not a safe
thing to do.
Comments welcome.
[1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1051838/killing-a-thread-c
[2] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/7a2f3ay4%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
[3]
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2251964/c-sharp-thread-termination-and-th
read-abort
--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
OSVW Consulting
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 18:00:10 -0800
From: "Dave Gubser" <gubser at dynacee.com>
To: <opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de>
Subject: [Opensim-dev] Opensimulator / Second Life non-server based
NPC navigation
Message-ID: <000901cdee0d$0ee003c0$2ca00b40$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I thought the following might generate a little interest in NPC
capablilites. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krPKVey7LgU&feature=youtu.be
-----Original Message-----
From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of
opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:00 AM
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 65, Issue 6
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL module
(Justin Clark-Casey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 23:02:40 +0000
From: Justin Clark-Casey <jjustincc at googlemail.com>
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL
module
Message-ID: <50EB5410.5080907 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I suspect the compiled DTL/NSL module is looking for Mono.Addins v0.5
whereas recent changes now mean that Mono.Addins
v0.6 is shipped.
If this is so, you really either need to recompile the DTL/NSL module (or
ask the authors to do so in preparation for the final release of 0.7.5), or
redirect the DTL/NSL assembly [1] to load the 0.6 module even though it's
looking for
0.5 (or ask the authors). I can't say for sure if this will work though
there's a good chance.
[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/twy1dw1e%28v=vs.90%29.aspx
On 07/01/13 01:31, James Hughes wrote:
> Yes, please paste a full error output on pastebin.com and the link
> here. Be sure no passwords or other sensitive information is included.
>
> Thanks!
> BlueWall
>
> On 01/06/2013 05:32 PM, What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand wrote:
>> Hello James,
>>
>> I have been searching for additinal dll''s in system paths, none found.
>> I am using the Mono.addons from the opensimulator, and no the module
>> does not come with its own version.
>> Personaly i dont think the module is failing as i get the same error
>> on a fresh ( without anny aditional modules ) opensim 0.7.5 rc1.
>> My effort you point out below was that i replaced the effected files
>> from git changes on this subject to see if i get it running.
>> I am probably over 30 hours now trying to solve this isue, that is
>> why i called out for help as i cant pinpoint this isue.
>> I even tried to use the .config files from 0.7.3 as they where
>> different.. also no solution.
>>
>> Strange thing is that the older git 13c4fd7 is running fine.
>> I cant find any other mono.addin* files in any path that could be
>> accesed, i dont know if the mono.addins search locations by them selfs?
>> The robust is running just fine, only the simulator is giving this error.
>> ( i asume this error couses all external modules to not load, as i
>> dont have this error on the win7 box and modules are working there
>> just fine )
>>
>> If you need a full error output, please let me know.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Martin forster
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Hughes"
>> <jamesh at bluewallgroup.com>
>> To: <opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 8:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL
>> module
>>
>>
>>> On 01/06/2013 09:15 AM, What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand wrote:
>>>> Hello all.. hope to post this to the right section.
>>>> I have been trying to update our beta simulators to 0.7.5 rc1.
>>>> It seems it has a problem at the mono.addins.
>>>> Error log(part):
>>>> log4net:ERROR DefaultRepositorySelector: Unhandled exception in
>>>> GetInfoForAssembly
>>>> System.IO.FileLoadException: Could not load file or assembly
>>>> 'Mono.Addins, Versi on=0.5.0.0, Culture=neutral,
>>>> PublicKeyToken=0738eb9f132ed756' or one of its depe ndencies. The
>>>> located assembly's manifest definition does not match the assembly
>>>> reference. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80131040) File name:
>>>> 'Mono.Addins, Version=0.5.0.0, Culture=neutral,
>>>> PublicKeyToken=0738eb......
>>>
>>> Can you see any other copies of Mono.Addins in the path on that
>>> system, or does the module distribute it's own version of them?
>>>
>>>> I have done next:
>>>> replaced :
>>>> bin/Mono.Addins.CecilReflector.dll
>>>> bin/Mono.Addins.Setup.dll
>>>> bin/Mono.Addins.dll
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mono Addins have been updated to support some new capabilities on
>>> the Robust server.
>>>
>>> The distributed versions are what should work. Changing them might
>>> cause further issues. First, let's see if there are additional
>>> copies around. Also, if you remove that module, does it report the
error?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> BlueWall
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
OSVW Consulting
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Opensim-dev mailing list
Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 65, Issue 6
******************************************
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 23:16:32 -0800
From: Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com>
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Opensimulator / Second Life non-server
based NPC navigation
Message-ID:
<CAAQTD4WiqzGSngSvRSvmYE2Xz_oWTWd4Y6k7O17HMb20EnqMcg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I guess I should take this opportunity for a little shameless
self-promotion ;)
http://vimeo.com/51836266
http://vimeo.com/51377266
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Dave Gubser <gubser at dynacee.com> wrote:
> I thought the following might generate a little interest in NPC
> capablilites. :)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krPKVey7LgU&feature=youtu.be
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of
> opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:00 AM
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 65, Issue 6
>
> Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
> opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> opensim-dev-owner at lists.berlios.de
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL module
> (Justin Clark-Casey)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 23:02:40 +0000
> From: Justin Clark-Casey <jjustincc at googlemail.com>
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL
> module
> Message-ID: <50EB5410.5080907 at googlemail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I suspect the compiled DTL/NSL module is looking for Mono.Addins v0.5
> whereas recent changes now mean that Mono.Addins
> v0.6 is shipped.
>
> If this is so, you really either need to recompile the DTL/NSL module (or
> ask the authors to do so in preparation for the final release of 0.7.5),
or
> redirect the DTL/NSL assembly [1] to load the 0.6 module even though it's
> looking for
> 0.5 (or ask the authors). I can't say for sure if this will work though
> there's a good chance.
>
> [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/twy1dw1e%28v=vs.90%29.aspx
>
> On 07/01/13 01:31, James Hughes wrote:
> > Yes, please paste a full error output on pastebin.com and the link
> > here. Be sure no passwords or other sensitive information is included.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > BlueWall
> >
> > On 01/06/2013 05:32 PM, What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand wrote:
> >> Hello James,
> >>
> >> I have been searching for additinal dll''s in system paths, none found.
> >> I am using the Mono.addons from the opensimulator, and no the module
> >> does not come with its own version.
> >> Personaly i dont think the module is failing as i get the same error
> >> on a fresh ( without anny aditional modules ) opensim 0.7.5 rc1.
> >> My effort you point out below was that i replaced the effected files
> >> from git changes on this subject to see if i get it running.
> >> I am probably over 30 hours now trying to solve this isue, that is
> >> why i called out for help as i cant pinpoint this isue.
> >> I even tried to use the .config files from 0.7.3 as they where
> >> different.. also no solution.
> >>
> >> Strange thing is that the older git 13c4fd7 is running fine.
> >> I cant find any other mono.addin* files in any path that could be
> >> accesed, i dont know if the mono.addins search locations by them selfs?
> >> The robust is running just fine, only the simulator is giving this
> error.
> >> ( i asume this error couses all external modules to not load, as i
> >> dont have this error on the win7 box and modules are working there
> >> just fine )
> >>
> >> If you need a full error output, please let me know.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Martin forster
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Hughes"
> >> <jamesh at bluewallgroup.com>
> >> To: <opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de>
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 8:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] 0.7.5 rc1, missing support for the DTL/NSL
> >> module
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 01/06/2013 09:15 AM, What Virtual World - Guy Quicksand wrote:
> >>>> Hello all.. hope to post this to the right section.
> >>>> I have been trying to update our beta simulators to 0.7.5 rc1.
> >>>> It seems it has a problem at the mono.addins.
> >>>> Error log(part):
> >>>> log4net:ERROR DefaultRepositorySelector: Unhandled exception in
> >>>> GetInfoForAssembly
> >>>> System.IO.FileLoadException: Could not load file or assembly
> >>>> 'Mono.Addins, Versi on=0.5.0.0, Culture=neutral,
> >>>> PublicKeyToken=0738eb9f132ed756' or one of its depe ndencies. The
> >>>> located assembly's manifest definition does not match the assembly
> >>>> reference. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80131040) File name:
> >>>> 'Mono.Addins, Version=0.5.0.0, Culture=neutral,
> >>>> PublicKeyToken=0738eb......
> >>>
> >>> Can you see any other copies of Mono.Addins in the path on that
> >>> system, or does the module distribute it's own version of them?
> >>>
> >>>> I have done next:
> >>>> replaced :
> >>>> bin/Mono.Addins.CecilReflector.dll
> >>>> bin/Mono.Addins.Setup.dll
> >>>> bin/Mono.Addins.dll
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mono Addins have been updated to support some new capabilities on
> >>> the Robust server.
> >>>
> >>> The distributed versions are what should work. Changing them might
> >>> cause further issues. First, let's see if there are additional
> >>> copies around. Also, if you remove that module, does it report the
> error?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> BlueWall
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-dev mailing list
> > Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >
>
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> OSVW Consulting
> http://justincc.org
> http://twitter.com/justincc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
> End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 65, Issue 6
> ******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
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