[Opensim-dev] Questions about Vehicle scripting calls

Thu Jun 7 17:29:06 UTC 2012

If you rez them and take a copy, you should be able to do so with the copy

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Bengt Falke <bengt at falke.nu> wrote:

> Sorry but I am not allowed to view your scripts...
> Regards/ Vid Pipe
>
> 7 jun 2012 kl. 14:22 skrev James Stallings II:
>
> They are all completely open, yes :)
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Bengt Falke <bengt at falke.nu> wrote:
>
>> James, are your scripts open for us to view and work with?
>> Regards/ Void Pipe
>>
>> 7 jun 2012 kl. 13:30 skrev James Stallings II:
>>
>> I've been working with vehicle scripting on opensims now for over 4
>> years. There are lots of historical scripts I have written or adapted from
>> the work of others, or collaborated on with others in the OSgrid scripting
>> forums. These include sailing scripts, automobile scripts, and yes, even a
>> helicopter script. Dave Coyle said over three years ago that my helicopter
>> was "the most satisfying vehicle he'd ever seen on an opensim'.
>>
>> In fact, Owen Oyen and I produced the first vehicles on OSgrid *without
>> any vehicle functions at all*. These were sailboats that entirely simulated
>> 'sailboat physics' using llSetRot, llGetRot, llApplyImpulse and friends.
>> The boat was clunky, did not heel, moved in anything but a smooth fashion,
>> and was hell on the simulation. My more 'modern' boats can be found on
>> Littlefield region on OSgrid, as well as a historical display documenting
>> the work on the aquavita. The working copies of the boats are in a vendor;
>> those sitting at the dock have had the scripts ripped out to reduce lag on
>> the sim, don't take copies of those.
>>
>> Later (much later than that boat, the 'Aquavita"), I worked extensively
>> with Kitto Flora to get ODE implemetations of such vehicle scripting
>> functions working as  work now. The work is imperfect, but not all of the
>> problems are with ODE proper; some have to do with various math functions'
>> implementation in opensim, and how they differ from the same math functions
>> as implemented in SL under havoc. The short story is, LL's functions are
>> broken in terms of how physics actually dictates real-world objects behave;
>> and the same functions are incomplete here, as the developers who worked on
>> them refused to implement the broken math, and no resolution could be
>> reached among the devs as to how to proceed, so the functions on opensims
>> are incomplete and/or unfinished.
>>
>> All of this is more or less ancient history. I've got many very simple
>> test objects needed to reproduce these errors as test cases in inventory on
>> the grid, and related mantis entries filed, but quite frankly they've been
>> ignored for so long I lost interest a couple years back and haven't really
>> bothered with vehicles since. Who wants to sail a boat that doesn't heel?
>> Who want's to fly an airplane that has no inertia if a vector component is
>> on the z-axis? Not to mention, incoming physics 'fixes' often break the
>> workarounds, with no explanation of how to take advantage of the
>> improvements.
>>
>> It's really discouraging to be told about your now non-functional
>> helicopter you've been using for most of a year that 'those vehicle
>> functions never really worked anyway'.
>>
>> One of the problems is that to make something work you have to be able to
>> define 'working' in a manner that lends itself to implementation by nuts
>> and bolts coders, and (so far) no one has presented themselves that has
>> that sort of exhaustive knowledge of LL's vehicle physics.
>>
>> I'm not a nay-sayer; I really hope this stuff can be made to work
>> someday; but I long ago lost hope as I'll likely be dead and buried before
>> it happens at current rates of development, especially if everyone forgets
>> or ignores all the prior work that has been done or that the issues raised
>> are not so new as the users encountering them.
>>
>> I'm available to help with this, as much or as little as is needed, but
>> you'll have to be patient with me as, at this point, I've largely forgotten
>> a lot of what I knew about this, having given up on going blue in the face
>> trying to get anyone to take notice of the issues I was raising.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> James aka Hiro Protagonist
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 4:38 AM, Bengt Falke <bengt at falke.nu> wrote:
>>
>>> This is getting more and more interesting for each post on the
>>> subject......
>>>
>>> I think it would be a good thing to collect all the relevant information
>>> about physics and scripting in the forum so it is available to all
>>> struggling with this. Are there still active work going on with ODE or are
>>> our only option to find ways around the problems or hope for the Bullet
>>> engine?
>>>
>>> I saw in another post a reference to a OSGrid scripting forum and I
>>> assume it is this section you are referring to (please correct me if I am
>>> wrong):
>>> http://forums.osgrid.org/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=d584d594240e0917e41480491af385ec
>>>
>>> That might anyhow be a good place to post in.
>>> Void Pipe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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