[Opensim-dev] llDetectedType and NPC's

Wed Jul 25 00:03:32 UTC 2012

As a result of discussion on this list and in the relevant Mantis entries, in order to avoid future clashes with 
possible LL use of an NPC constant, in git master bcfc392 (Fri Jul 20 21:08:04 2012) I implemented OS_NPC.  This can be 
used in llSensor().  The NPC constant is now deprecated but will remain valid.

llGetDetectedType() from git master ecf7bb26 (Fri Jul 20 21:36:33 2012) will set the OS_NPC flag if an NPC is detected. 
  If the NPC was created with OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT it will also set the AGENT flag.

On 12/07/12 16:43, Argus wrote:
> I think Dahlia means the symbolic constant being the same. Dahlia pointed out in the mantis that LL might be
> implementing the symbolic constant NPC for something else...
>
> Am 12.07.2012 04:19, schrieb Melanie:
>> Then it will be a case in point to use symbolic constants, not magic
>> numbers.
>>
>> Melanie
>>
>> On 12/07/2012 03:58, Dahlia Trimble wrote:
>>> So what happens when LL defines "NPC" and it means something different that
>>> what is defined in OpenSimulator?
>>>
>>> And yes, I believe the probability is quite high that they will eventually
>>> define it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <
>>> jjustincc at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's a neat solution, Argus.  Since the intention of
>>>> OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT was to provide compatibility rather than 'fool', I
>>>> think returning both NPC and AGENT flags would be perfectly acceptable.
>>>>   Let's see if there are any other comments, otherwise I think we can
>>>> proceed along those lines.  I'm still not that happy with extending
>>>> llDetectedType() but leakage has already occurred and I suspect its
>>>> inevitable.
>>>>
>>>> On another note, I'm not sure what 'plausibility' checks you're referring
>>>> to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/07/12 13:04, Argus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am fully aware of the open source factor and that in each open grid
>>>>> everything can be changed, which is why one always
>>>>> needs backend function to make sure no fals information is passed on to
>>>>> the central service. One can however filter 99%
>>>>> of the fals data in the local sim which helps the central service because
>>>>> it does not need to process every single
>>>>> plausability checks. In a multi grid environment with closed grids we
>>>>> even have a lower chance of false data beeing
>>>>> passed than in a open grid only environment.
>>>>>
>>>>>    We have the same situations in opensim were the simulator often does
>>>>> some local plausability checks before it send
>>>>> data to the gridservers. The gridservers again do a plausability check
>>>>> combined with other methods which are not
>>>>> available on the local sim. Only if all steps are plausable the data gets
>>>>> processed further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I added a new patch for llDetectedType were NPCs always return
>>>>> NPC and useing OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT will returns
>>>>> AGENT + NPC. I think that is an acceptable compromize... I also added an
>>>>> example script were the true NPC detection
>>>>> always makes sense  ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 11.07.2012 02:01, schrieb Justin Clark-Casey:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Argus, if your system relies on always reliably identifying unique
>>>>>> avatars then that is simply not possible in any
>>>>>> OpenSimulator environment where simulators are controlled by third
>>>>>> parties or where hypergrid travel is allowed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even if OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT did not exist, then people would be able
>>>>>> to compile a version of the code that did have
>>>>>> that functionality. This is not about ideology - it's about what is
>>>>>> physically possible!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Equally, it is perfectly possible to create duplicate HG details -
>>>>>> anything can be put in the agent data that comes
>>>>>> from a foreign grid (justin at hg.osgrid.org or whatever).  You cannot
>>>>>> rely on these to be unique either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Without any central authority (like DNS, the secure certificate
>>>>>> infrastructure of something like Bitcoin block chains)
>>>>>> it is simply not possible to uniquely identify avatars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see this as much different from the web where one has to get
>>>>>> people to create unique accounts with passwords
>>>>>> in order to identify them later.  Such a thing has to be done in some
>>>>>> authority system outside of OpenSimulator itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If your point is that without OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT then the vast
>>>>>> majority of systems would always present NPCs as
>>>>>> NPCs (rather than agents) then I would agree.  In fact, in practice most
>>>>>> people won't use OS_NPC_SENSE_AS_AGENT anyway
>>>>>> as it's the option rather than the default.  But you cannot rely on
>>>>>> uniquely identifying avatars on any environment
>>>>>> outside those that you directly control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On a minor note, script functions that don't make any sense for NPCs
>>>>>> should behave as if the UUID they received did
>>>>>> not relate to a valid entity for that function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org/blog
http://twitter.com/justincc