[Opensim-dev] Leaving Project

Mon Nov 23 13:20:12 UTC 2009

"OpenSim is not Second Life, is not intended to be like Second Life, nor ever will."

I'll repeat that - most (all?) of the core devs will too. The Second Live viewer is convenient - since the protocol is documented and it gives us a good feature base to start with; but it's not the be-all-and-end-all. OpenSim is more like a series of tubes - events & inputs go in one direction, get mashed around in the modules, then spat back out other tubes to be sent to clients. Second Life compatibility modules are definitely well numbered - but internally, we're not really aiming for a SL wannabe-world simulator.

SL compatibility is the most prominent use of this - since there's been a lot of people interested in that; but Rock's original complaints are exactly spot on the mark - sticking to the SL feature set is a complete waste of time. SL's technology is dated - LL's inability to implement modern 3D graphics standards is going to bite them in the arse over the next few years.

This is where OpenSim's internal commitment to moving towards things like IClientCore over IClientAPI - means we'll be supporting more advanced viewers as time goes on, and those are developed. I've got my eye personally on the Rex Naali project, even if it is 12 months away from having something user-friendly.

But that ultimately said; right now there is pretty much nothing stopping you from building a kickass viewer with say the UDK, hooking up a decent clientstack and running with it (see the MXP implementation for a good example on how to implement a foreign clientstack using another viewer's protocol). I know some people have been doing just that with Unity lately.

The big problem here is there's a very real lack of viewer developers in this community - there is some overlap between server & network engineers (like the OS community) and 3D Viewer Developers here, but not much. If we do have 3D devs in the community who haven't done anything and feel like contributing - you really should be talking to some of the 'next gen viewer' projects and seeing if we can get something awesome done faster.

Regards,

Adam

From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Len Brown
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 5:07 AM
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Leaving Project

Rock,

     I sympathize with you on many levels.  I've also had my doubts regarding the future of OpenSim, but I have also maintained some degree of faith that things will pull through in the end.

     For me the shock came when I was abruptly informed that "OpenSim is not Second Life, is not intended to be like Second Life, nor ever will."  I still haven't the foggiest idea what this developer had smoked for them to so strongly assert that incredibly false statement.

     For me, the enjoyment of OpenSim has come from my intense devotion to building and skinning.  In fact, for the last few months I've been working on a full region that has many hundreds of skins, clothes, hair, furniture, etc, etc, that I'd like to package up as an OAR and give out freely, since repeatedly I've been told that instead of giving money to help further OpenSim I'd do more proactively by giving content.  So I plan to do just that and give my money to other open source initiatives that matter to me.

     I have a passion for writing, and have thought many times that one of the greatest powers OpenSim would gain is having simple, straightforward, step-by-step instructions on how to download, compile, install, administer and overall just plain operate the core applications.  What kills me is that everyone who does a search for OpenSim inevitably hits the opensimulator.org<http://opensimulator.org> site and that is where the massive roadblock presents itself.  It's useless for most and irrelevant to the few who consider themselves OpenSim experts.

     Heck, even now on the configuration page it still displays info for 0.6.6 including (months old) known bugs in setting up region xml files.  If there was appointed a volunteer whose sole job was to keep information on opensimulator.org<http://opensimulator.org> relevant that one task would resolve a mountain of negativity right there.  I sit here in front of my computers a good 10 to 12 hours a day.

     I would sincerely love to contribute to the OpenSim project, especially in documentation support.  But the thing holding me back is communication.  If I cannot get a straight answer on who to GIVE money to in order to help, then I stand little chance of getting clear, straight answers from developers when asking about issues I need to consider and incorporate in documentation.

     If communication is a hurdle we can all overcome, with a genuine and heart-felt effort to relay information, motives, and plans with one another, then I'd sincerely appreciate having the opportunity to personally contribute.  I'm not a programmer today, but have a degree in programming fro the 90's (so much has changed my degree is practically useless in that regard).  But I do know how to explain things and relay information in simple terms.  But only if my own questions will be answered with more than "look it up or figure it out yourself" as my answer.

     If any of you would appreciate my help, feel free to let me know at any time and I'll do what I can.

- Len W. Brown
     lenwbrown at gmail.com<mailto:lenwbrown at gmail.com>
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Colin B. Withers <Colin.Withers at eumetsat.int<mailto:Colin.Withers at eumetsat.int>> wrote:
Hi guys,

I have decided to leave the Opensim project. You will probably not even notice if I leave, as not being a programmer my only inputs were the writing of the step-by-step tutorials ( http://chapter-and-metaverse.blogspot.com/ ), the drafts of the OpenSim User Manual on the Forge, and helping out in the IRC channels, for newcomers.

You may find my reasons for leaving Opensim interesting though (and please do not construe any of my reasons as an attack on anyone).

1. The Platform
I raised this several times in the past in IRC, and made posts on my blog about the product lifecycle of the platform ( http://rock-vacirca.blogspot.com/2009/02/direction-of-virtual-worlds.html ). I believe that the platforms underpinning both Second Life and Opensim are quite long in the tooth now, and I questioned how much product lifecycle there was left, particularly given that Opensim is now nearing 3 years of development, is still in Alpha, and if the current release of 0.6.7 is any indicator, then still only around two thirds into the development cycle. With the (inevitable) coming of much superior platforms, such as Blue Mars and (as a virtual world); Unity, for browser-based Virtual Wolrds; and now UDK (for creating sandboxes, standalones, and open grids), then I fear that Opensim has missed the boat as far as the remaining lifecycle of the platform is concerned. When you show people what is possible with these engines (for example this avatar editor for the forthcom
 ing APB (using the Unreal Engine): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icR3LtEMvZI or this city: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLzNbPXMDg (using the CryEngine), then neither SL not Opensim stands comparison.

2. Lack of Support for Currency in Opensim
I felt the impact of this when I first made the switch from SL to Opensim. I had a thriving RP sim in SL (over 50 people, mainly female) and they all agreed to follow me over to my Opensim and the OSGrid. However, within a month they had all left, citing the same reason, the lack of places to shop, to buy the quality stuff they wanted (skins, hair, clothes etc), as a quality appearance, and the fun of shopping is what all the females placed high on their requirements from a Virtual World. They drifted back to Second Life, and the guys followed them. I have always believed that the lack of support for currency in the core was a mistake, but that is just my opinion.

3. Marketing
I have also raised this issue several times, and blogged about it. It is far from clear just who an eventually released Opensim is actually aimed at. I think that any company that is interested in a firewalled corporate solution to collaboration and prototyping will already be looking at the Enterprise solution that is currently available from Second Life; that any indie group that is thinking of running a themed grid will need an economy to stay viable; and any individual who is looking for a private sandbox solution for their SL work will need full compatibility (which is not the case with the OS version of LSL diverging from the SL LSL). So, just who is the platform aimed at? I was also very disappointed in the view of one of the core devs who said that 'marketing is a null concept for us'.

I am currently designing and creating cities for Blue Mars, and involved in a team for proving the UDK as a platform for the design and creation of Virtual Worlds (as opposed to purely games), and with so much documentation available for these mature engines (particularly for the UDK, Blue Mars lags behind somewhat in that department, but have hired extra staff to put that right), I am achieving the productivity I want, building the worlds that I want, with stable crash-free platforms.

However, I do wish the Opensim team the very best in their endeavours, and I sincerely hope their goals are eventually achieved.

If anyone would like to take over the Opensim Tutorials pages at http://chapter-and-metaverse.blogspot.com/ and http://chapter-and-metaverse2.blogspot.com/ (they will need some updating following several changes) then I am more than willing to pass the posts over, and of course the Opensim User Manual is there in the Forge for anyone to develop further.

Best Regards and Good Luck

Rock

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