[Opensim-dev] Currency

Wed Jul 8 08:10:55 UTC 2009

I guess the economy stuff can be used as karma system as well. It doesn't need 
to involve real money, to fit a purpose.

Jeroen

On Wednesday 08 July 2009 05:54:04 Stefan Andersson wrote:
> Rock,
>
>
>
> An implementation of a functional monetary system has been declared as out
> of scope for OpenSim. It is something that has to go into the custom
> implementation/third party provider layer.
>
>
>
> There is a live and ongoing discussion as of where to draw the line for
> what goes into the core, and what should be left to external module
> creators and custom implementation.
>
>
>
> It is within scope of OpenSim to provide hooks so that such a module,
> tailored for the specific use case, be created.
>
>
>
> As a project we need to draw a scope line somewhere, and often it's a case
> of weighting several variables against each other.
>
>
>
> In this case, it's been a long standing stance that implementation of a
> monetary system is outside of the scope of the OpenSim core distribution.
>
>
>
> We did provide the SampleMoneyModule, but the problem was that people was
> using this unsafe and immature example code directly in live and production
> environments. Though we could swear ourselves free from that with a  "suit
> yourself, it was wholly at your own risk", it's not only a legal case, but
> also a case of us not wanting to expose our users to unsafe and immature
> code that could cause them direct economic damage. We generally don't want
> to take decisions for our users, but this one would be considered a
> real-world risk policy decision.
>
>
>
> I believe that the very absence of a money implementation outside of core
> would be an indication that it's right not having one inside; if there is
> no external module being maintained and used, it either means nobody see
> value enough to work on it, or that any implementation is too use case
> specific for there to be any value for the general public.
>
>
>
> At any rate, it is my opinion that the whole economy domain needs a lot
> more work and reach a much higher level of maturity before anything could
> be considered for inclusion into the core distribution.
>
>
>
> /Stefan
>
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Colin B. Withers
> Sent: den 7 juli 2009 15:27
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency
>
>
>
> If ReactionGrid uses no currency, and has no plans to ever have it, and
> does not wish to get involded in virtual commerce, using either core
> solutions or external solutions, then indeed it is a 3D chatroom. 3D
> chatrooms are well suited to Educational purposes, and indeed my own
> Opensim grid has been used by a US college for educational purposes.
>
>
>
> However, for a virtual space to take on the mantle of a virtual world, then
> commerce is an essential element, and currency is essential to that.
>
>
>
> I think the argument that there is a risk in providing a currency module in
> core, from those who might complain "your code ate my money" is a specious
> argument. This charge could be levelled whenever opensim is used as a
> platform for a virtual world providing virtual real estate, for real world
> money (whether a  currency module is implemented in core or external) as if
> the grid goes down due to software bugs the grid owner stands to lose
> rental income, or be liable for the claims of others.
>
>
>
> This can all be mitigated against (in territotories that allow it) by use
> of a carefully worded TOS.
>
>
>
> Should the development of opensim be halted because someone might claim
> "your software crashed my hard-drive, and I have lost US$$$" or "the bugs
> in your software have contributed to me losing several tenants this week,
> losing US$$$ in the process"?
>
>
>
> The software is used 'as is', with no claims as fitness for any particular
> purpose, and this would apply to any core currency module.
>
>
>
> Rock
>
> PS Another grid, that the owner ploughed 1000s of dollars into, has
> collapsed recently, due to lack of a viable currency solution.
>
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Chris Hart
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 3:50 PM
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency
>
>
>
> Couldn't disagree more - ReactionGrid has no inworld currency and no plans
> to ever have it. Encouraging creativity, sharing, and collaborative
> learning has proved more than worthwhile to us. And quite frankly, the
> legal and tax issues around running a currency system should require
> dedicated qualified experts to manage correctly. You can do a huge amount
> without play money inworld - and if you want to pay someone money for a
> product, there are many solutions out there that are properly regulated by
> financial services authorities.
>
>
>
> Money should be something you can add in yourselves if you want (hence I
> believe it's on Forge these days), but I completely understand core
> developer reluctance to have code in trunk that could potentially come back
> to haunt with "your code ate my money" complaints.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> From: Colin <mailto:Colin.Withers at eumetsat.int>  B. Withers
>
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:30 PM
>
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency
>
>
>
> Has this always been the case? Why was SampleMoney and OpenCurrency
> removed?
>
> Without currency opensim regions and grids devolve into nothing more than
> 3D chatrooms.
>
> Rock
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Melanie
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:47 AM
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency
>
> OpenSim and the OpenSim project don't provide a grid currency
> implementation.
>
> Melanie
>
> Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> > Will currencies be distributed accross grids?
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Jason Fisher<bikcmp2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi, as of revision 9000 or so, SAMPLEMONEY was removed, meaning my
> >> grid no longer has currency based of wiredux. I also saw OPENCURRENCY
> >> has been removed. I really want currncy on my grid, and need help.
> >> Anyone know something I can use on a later revision? THANKS
> >> bikcmp2 at gmail.com
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
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> >
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