[Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation

Tue Feb 17 01:17:43 UTC 2009

And that I am in 100% agreement on.

Melanie

Charles Krinke wrote:
> Well, it really doesnt matter what one calls them. Binary data, text, whatever.
> 
> The point is that we have a number of issues with our assets table in OpenSim that a bit of thought would help.
> 
> 1. We have a significant number of assets whose name is "blank" that are created with a default constructor. And I suspect are never accessible.
> 2. We have a significant number of assets of each and every edit of terrain, where only the very last one is accessible.
> 3. We have a significant number of assets of each and every text edit for each and every textual assets. Where only the last one should be accessible.
> 
> Its a bit like collecting every scrap of paper ever written with either text or binary glyphs and putting them in a big filing cabinet.
> 
> After a while, finding the ones that are "interesting" in a "timely" manner starts to get a little "challenging".
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:43:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation
> 
> Yes, I did forget sounds. Probably because they never reached 
> critical mass on any system I have anything to do with. Though, a 
> lot seem to exist, judged by the number of gestures.
> As for images, I call them all "textures", because any image could 
> be used as a texture. They are all jp2 steams, so even though they 
> may have a different purpose from covering prims, they are 
> technically identical in storage format and type of content, and 
> would be handled the same.
> 
> Melanie
> 
> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>> Melanie wrote:
>>> No. Terrain images are textures. They are assets referring to jp2 
>>> streams. That makes them textures. And, AFAIK, all other assets are 
>>> text.
>> 
>> Other non-text assets are images that aren't textures and sounds.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Melanie
>>> 
>>> Charles Krinke wrote:
>>>> I am so sorry that we are having communications difficulties.
>>>>
>>>> Terrain Images, are, I believe, neither "textual" nor "text".
>>>>
>>>> That was just an example.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that we need to be careful and consider all the various assets which include a lot more then textures and scripts.
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:23:16 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> that was a typo. The correct word was "textual". All asset types 
>>>> besides textures are text.
>>>>
>>>> Melanie
>>>>
>>>> Charles Krinke wrote:
>>>>> Sorry, the other assets are not just "small texture data". We have terrainImages, amongst other things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our assets table in OpenSim contains lots of things including the infamouse "blank", so lets look at it in total and not just from the script viewpoint. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Course with scripts themselves, we have every edited version of every edited script in addition to every change of every other asset complicating the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
>>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:44:56 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I'd like to stress that I believe this is too dangerous to do 
>>>>> for anything other than textures.
>>>>> It is also not really needed for things other than textures, since 
>>>>> the other assets are comparatively small, textural data.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would not want to risk even the smallest chance of a hash 
>>>>> collision on script source.
>>>>>
>>>>> Melanie
>>>>>
>>>>> Stefan Andersson wrote:
>>>>>> Coming in a bit from the side here,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we have, for some time, discussed to separate out the binary blog out of the metadata for an entirely different reason, namely to be able to weed out binary duplicates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there was a way for us to separate out the binary parts, into something like 'binaryassetId, hashData[256], binarydata' and then just have the asset table referencing that row, I think it would help a lot.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realize it's a separate discussion, just chipping in my two cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Stefan Andersson
>>>>>> Tribal Media AB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:49:22 +0200
>>>>>> From: tommi.s.e.laukkanen at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: mmazur at gmail.com
>>>>>> CC: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Please do not revert fixes without careful comtemplation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> On second though we could keep the current structure and expose all fields also through AssetBase properties. Then we could save / load the AssetBase with nhibernate as a single object and leave out the Metadata  property from NHibernate mapping. Does this sound good?
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>> Tommi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Mike Mazur <mmazur at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Tommi Laukkanen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <tommi.s.e.laukkanen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was talking with mikkopa and he suggested we should create two tables to
>>>>>>> cover AssetBase to solve this issue properly. Namely AssetMetadata for
>>>>>>> metadata information and AssetData for blobs to avoid situation where we end
>>>>>>> up accessing also the blob data just to read metadata.
>>>>>> I was hoping not to have to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It should be straightforward to support the current
>>>>>> AssetBase/AssetMetadata composition in the existing OpenSim data
>>>>>> layers, but as sdague warned me earlier, by mapping multiple classes
>>>>>> to one table I was entering a world of pain. Seems that's exactly
>>>>>> what's happening with NHibernate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I introduced the AssetMetadata class is to supply metadata
>>>>>> information only for some requests that Cable Beach, the new asset
>>>>>> server, supports. Now I realize that this was probably a premature
>>>>>> optimization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead of modifying the DB schema, we could have AssetBase inherit
>>>>>> from AssetMetadata, as I outlined before[1]. Alternatively, we could
>>>>>> get rid of AssetMetadata altogether and store everything in AssetBase
>>>>>> as before, splitting out the metadata sometime in the future when a
>>>>>> use case warrants it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-February/004918.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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