[Opensim-dev] Thoughts....
Diva Canto
diva at metaverseink.com
Wed Mar 5 18:29:39 UTC 2008
Apologies if I if I offended you, not intended at all.
What you are proposing now would require a) an ontology of all things
virtual world; b) confidence that people would categorize their items
the right way. Good luck! :-)
What makes you believe that a person carrying a Star Ship would place it
under "Sci-fi"? If they really wanted to sneak it in a medieval world,
there would be nothing preventing them from placing it under "medieval."
(I, for one, have most of my inventory items under "Objects")
Todd Adams wrote:
> You totally misunderstand my intentions. What I have proposed does
> not require any feat of computer vision or engineering magic. Its
> actually very simple. People assign inventory and items into
> categories all the time. You do it everytime you register an item at
> SLX. sure this system would be a bit more complicated, but not by much.
>
> Are you always so insulting?
>
> You don't see how modelling an international economy would have any
> educational value? Im not going to comment on that any more than that
> question. I'll let the question stand with the rest of the community.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Diva Canto <diva at metaverseink.com
> <mailto:diva at metaverseink.com>> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
> You're expecting too much from technology. What you are saying is
> 100 times harder to do (close to impossible, really) than
> encrypting things so that only authorized people can see them.
> There is no way that one can automatically distinguish Star Trek's
> Enterprise from a horse carriage. Meta-info like name and
> description is unreliable, because one can name a carriage "Star
> Trek Enterprise". What you are asking for goes into the field of
> computer vision, one that is still in its early infancy.
>
> Negotiations like that must be done at some other level. Good old
> human communication, over a simple Access Control List facility,
> can take you 99.99% of the way. So if you want to enforce the
> theme of your role-playing virtual world, either close it down so
> that only your trusted friends can enter, or have it open under a
> ToS that explains the rules of the game and the consequences of
> breaking them ("you must be 18 years old or older" etc :-). Note
> that you will have the freedom to write a ToS that is very
> specific to your role-playing world, not the generic one that LL
> has. You can make it as restrictive as you want. Enforcing it is
> another issue altogether... So if you really really don't want to
> be bothered by mood-breaking off topic avatars, ever, close things
> down, make your world accessible only to the people you trust.
>
> OpenSim is trying to figure out how to support surfing of avatars
> among grids, because that is something that lots of people want
> for conducting real business and outreach in virtual worlds; but,
> like on the web, that kind of openness stops in sites/grids that
> have an Access Control in place. The option of closing things down
> to authorized accounts is not only a well-practiced concept on the
> internet, but one that OpenSim supports at the very core.
>
> I must say, though, that I don't see any connection between the
> concrete thing that you said and education, except, perhaps, the
> Police Academy :-)
>
> On a technical note, the Inventory is harmless. All assets in
> Inventory are sitting nicely on some hard disk, doing absolutely
> nothing. It's only when people attach them or rez them that they
> may become a problem -- these actions move the objects from the
> disk where they are sitting to the memory of the server, where
> everyone can see them and where they can run scripts, if allowed.
>
> Diva / Crista
>
> Todd Adams wrote:
>> @ Cristina
>>
>> Along the lines of permissions between grids...
>>
>> There are people who are going to want to set up specialty grids
>> for role-play. If they are creating a fantasy medieval world,
>> they sure do not want people bringing in the latest CCC spaceship
>> or BFG 2000 particle beam weapon into that world. Maybe it
>> should just be flagged so its grayed out in inventory until
>> arriving at a world the item is compatible with. On the
>> flipside, people role-playing a Star Trek universe are not going
>> to appreciate newcomers arriving with a +6 Vorpal Broadsword...
>>
>> Beyond allowing/disallowing, certain inventory items could be
>> embargoed or taxed in the local currency. A flexible enough
>> system would be an excellent learning tool for college and high
>> school economic classes.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:04 AM, dr scofield
>> <DrScofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net <mailto:DrScofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Cristina Videira Lopes wrote:
>>>
>>> Burnman,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Technically your comments are off, as Michael already
>>> pointed out. They are so off that I think they are directed
>>> at the Open Sourced LL viewer, i.e. at the ability for
>>> clients to get complete information about the objects
>>> inworld to the point of being able to store them locally and
>>> to replicate them. Note that this has nothing to do with
>>> OpenSim, strictly speaking. But let me comment on that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While the solution is technically feasible, what sense would
>>> it make to go around the world seeing garbage everywhere??
>>> Plus anyone who wanted to see the decrypted objects would
>>> have to use an extended version of the LL viewer, one that
>>> does decryption. Not to mention the added performance
>>> overhead. … Again, I doubt massive adoption, but this could
>>> definitely be done, technically.
>>>
>> completely agree with that. the point of a virtual world is
>> that you *can see the virtual world* --- again, this is the
>> core fallacy of DRM: you want keep your content a secret but
>> at the same you need to give your customers access to the
>> content otherwise why would they pay for it???
>>
>> let face facts (and i'm repeating arguments others and i have
>> made, i know):
>>
>> * clients will have to be told about the shape and
>> texture of virtual world objects --- *otherwise they
>> won't be able to render it*
>> * scripts can be kept on server, clients don't get access
>> to them (unless you own the object or share it)
>> * in a future interconnected grid of grid (let's call
>> that a virtual universe), you could add "permissions"
>> that let you specify to which grids an object may be
>> exported, that way you could say, i trust the LL grid,
>> i don't trust dr scofield's grid because, oh, i don't
>> know, she doesn't agree with me on DRM and VW ;-)
>>
>> that last approach will have consequences for your customers
>> though: they won't be able to take the objects they bought
>> from you with them to dr scofield's grid. some won't care,
>> some won't like it --- and probably not be return customers.
>> but that then is something you as a content provider have to
>> come to terms with.
>>
>>
>> cheers,
>> dr scofield
>>
>> --
>> dr dirk husemann, mathmatics and computer science, ibm zurich research lab
>> SL: dr scofield ---- drscofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net <mailto:drscofield at xyzzyxyzzy.net> ---- http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/
>> RL: hud at zurich.ibm.com <mailto:hud at zurich.ibm.com> - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/ <http://www.zurich.ibm.com/%7Ehud/>
>>
>>
>>
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