[Opensim-dev] [Opensim-users] grid operation

Thu Dec 11 13:58:43 UTC 2008

Very convenient yes, but multiple code-paths can double your debugging.

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Teravus Ovares <teravus at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm definately +1 on keeping standalone mode.
> It's that troublesome grid mode that really has to go!   haha.  Just
> kidding on that second part.
>
> Yeah, really, I never understood why a few people want to remove it.
> It's a fast, convenient and free way to get a grid-in-a-box.     You
> can make your cake and eat it too.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Teravus
>
> On 12/11/08, Michael Wright <michaelwri22 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Corrected Version with some spelling mistakes fixed and other small changes.
>>
>> I agree, and if we make the code and interface more shared between
>> standalone mode and the Grid servers, then all the Grid server app have to
>> be is minimum wrappers around the base classes. With them basically just
>> registering http handlers.
>>
>> This allows there to a gradient between full standalone mode and full Grid
>> mode. Different application are going to require different levels of
>> functions and embedded services.
>>
>> With one application maybe requiring a embedded Grid and User server in the
>> single instance but using external Inventory and Asset servers. And these
>> Inventory/asset servers could be shared with other applications/grids.
>>
>> Also I think future work on hyper grid could improve these sort of
>> applications. Allowing applications that require minimum separate backend
>> support, but being part of a bigger hyper grid.
>>
>> There are so many different applications/ case uses that we haven't really
>> even started to think about yet, that I think it would be a massive mistake
>> to make the distributed grid servers we have now, the only way of using
>> Opensim.
>>
>>
>> Michael Wright <michaelwri22 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I agree, and if we make the code and interface more shared between
>> standalone mode and the Grid servers, then all the Grid server app have to
>> be is minimum wrappers around the base classes. With them basically just
>> requesting http handlers.
>>
>> This allows there to a gradient between full standalone mode and full Grid
>> mode. Different application are going to require different levels of
>> functions and embedding.
>>
>> With one application maybe requiring a embedded Grid and User server in the
>> single instance but using external Inventory and Asset servers. And these
>> Inventory/asset servers maybe could be shared with other applications/grids.
>>
>> Also I think future work on hyper grid can improve these sort of
>> applications. Applications requiring minimum backend support but being part
>> of a bigger hyper grid.
>>
>> There are so many different applications/ case uses that we haven't really
>> even started to think about yet, that I think it would be a massic mistake
>> to make the distributed grid servers we have now the only way of using
>> Opensim.
>>
>>
>> "Kyle \"G\"" <create at reactiongrid.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have some ideas for embedded, disconnected apps, mobile in nature which
>> require a small embeddable DB and minimal footprint from OpenSim.  For this
>> reason we feel standalone mode is important and needed but for the majority
>> of what we plan in 2009 HyperGrid is a revolution we are really happy to see
>> as we would  love to be part of a bigger community of similar OpenSim grids.
>>
>> Kyle G
>> www.reactiongrid.com
>>
>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
>> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of
>> Michael Wright
>> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:37 AM
>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] [Opensim-users] grid operation
>>
>> -1, I think standalone mode is a important feature, and will become more
>> important in the future
>>
>>  I do think though, that we can do a lot more to cut down the code paths and
>> make the grid services share code and interfaces better with standalone mode
>>
>> Ryan McDougall <sempuki1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> belated +1
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Hurliman, John wrote:
>> > It seems to me that standalone mode could easily be replaced with a small
>> C# app that launches all of the grid services with the proper configuration.
>> This would reduce a lot of code paths.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
>> [mailto:opensim-dev-
>> >> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Stefan Andersson
>> >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:40 AM
>> >> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de; opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] [Opensim-users] grid operation
>> >>
>> >> Kyle,
>> >>
>> >>> I'm going to claim utter and absolute selfishness here and state that
>> >>> I cannot see any situation under which I would have only 1 location
>> >>> open in the 3D web.
>> >>
>> >> But others can and do - especially the out-of-the-box noob or the app
>> >> dev just wanting to throw up a region to test a module.
>> >>
>> >>> For the purpose of "easily getting things set up", standalone is all
>> >>> but useless in its initial state. It's certainly easier to get set
>> >>> up, but it's also much more limited.
>> >>
>> >> It has one glorious use : letting people get an instant taste of
>> >> OpenSim. That's probably what got us this far this fast.
>> >>
>> >>> Grid mode is perhaps a bit more difficult to set up -- but the
>> >>> default in the configuration file is for the Null storage plugin to
>> >>> be used under standalone mode. This makes things... difficult... when
>> >>> trying to explain how to get modifications to the environment saved.
>> >>
>> >> For region persistence, it's SQLite, not Null?
>> >>
>> >>> Because
>> >>> first, you have to explain how to configure the storage for the other
>> >>> modules (again, for standalone).
>> >>
>> >> I must admit I'm a bit confused as of what resources you mean need
>> >> configuration and extra set-up. Can you be more specific?
>> >>
>> >>> Also, I've been following the posts on the topic of the HyperGrid. I
>> >>> need more information on this: will it work for any of the minigrids
>> >>> to be in standalone mode when they try to connect with the HG? My gut
>> >>> feeling says no... and my reason for promoting grid over standalone
>> >>> is simply this: the HyperGrid is much closer to what the web is --
>> >>> multiple administrative domains that all work together to pass
>> >>> traffic between them. I don't view HG as being the final evolution,
>> >>> but I do view it as being a very good start.
>> >>
>> >> Definitively - HG is a major step along the very lines we've been
>> >> envisioning since the very beginning - when we first started using the
>> >> phrase "3D Web". Let's not forget the "friendly teleports" region
>> >> handle hacks of old. This is all building one step at a time, towards
>> >> a golden future. The project has come a long way in only two years.
>> >>
>> >> And I'm pretty confident that there's even more magical stuff brewing
>> >> on private hard drives and in corporate offices. :D
>> >>
>> >>> (And thank you, as always, for your time. :))
>> >>
>> >> And thank you for yours, Kyle!
>> >>
>> >> /Stefan
>> >>
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