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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0008550opensim[REGION] Specific OpenSim Modulepublic2019-06-19 10:032020-01-13 00:28
ReporterKubwa 
Assigned To 
PriorityhighSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformComputerOSWindowsOS Version10
Product Version0.9.0.1 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0008550: Copying Object inworld and Timeout handling
DescriptionWhen copying an object inworld (holding shift-key and moving the object), the new object does not show up immediately when the objects creator comes from a grid which no longer exists.
Even the edit menu stays unavailable for a longer time.

The simulator is trying to contact that grid several times which results in timeouts.
If you dont see that the object is not reproducesd immediately and you move the "new object" into its new place, the copy rezzes at the new objects location. That results in having that one object two times in the new location and no object where it should stay at.
Steps To Reproduce- Restart an simulator to make sure the grid cache is empty.
- Grab an item with an creator, coming from a grid which does not exist anymore.
- Hold the shift-key and move the object with build tools.
- The copy now does not rez and the regions console shouts timeout errors.
- After the region tried several times, the objects copy rezzes at the new location, not the old (which is wrong)
Additional InformationConsole output of region:

18:48:42 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://84.232.218.91:9100/ [^] failed: Die Verbindung mit dem Remoteserver kann nicht hergestellt werden.
18:48:42 - [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed Die Verbindung mit dem Remoteserver kann nicht hergestellt werden.
18:48:44 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://84.232.218.91:9100/ [^] failed: Die Verbindung mit dem Remoteserver kann nicht hergestellt werden.
18:48:44 - [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed Die Verbindung mit dem Remoteserver kann nicht hergestellt werden.
18:49:27 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://lpgrid.com:8002/ [^] failed: Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:49:27 - [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:49:37 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://lpgrid.com:8002/ [^] failed: Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:49:37 - [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:52:00 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://lpgrid.com:8002/ [^] failed: Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:52:00 - [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:56:05 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://lpgrid.com:8002/ [^] failed: Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:56:05 - [USER MANAGEMENT MODULE]: GetServerURLs call failed Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
18:56:15 - [USER AGENT CONNECTOR]: get_server_urls call to http://lpgrid.com:8002/ [^] failed: Timeout für Vorgang überschritten
TagsNo tags attached.
Git Revision or version number
Run Mode Grid (1 Region per Sim)
Physics EngineubODE
Script EngineXEngine
Environment.NET / Windows64
Mono VersionNone
Viewer
Attached Files

- Relationships

-  Notes
(0035405)
BillBlight (developer)
2019-06-19 10:10

I would guess this is not a opensim problem considering the host is unreachable ..

ping lpgrid.com

Pinging lpgrid.com [66.168.124.177] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 96.34.65.133: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 96.34.65.133: Destination host unreachable.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 66.168.124.177:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss),
(0035406)
Kubwa (reporter)
2019-06-19 10:12

yep, as i said, the grid no longer exists :)
OpenSim could start rez the new object before it tries to contact that grid. The problem here is, that it takes a few seconds until it rezzes due to the not existing hostname.
(0035407)
BillBlight (developer)
2019-06-19 10:13

lpgrid is gone, BTW, it no longer exists ..

I do believe that the owner passed away ...
(0035408)
BillBlight (developer)
2019-06-19 10:14
edited on: 2019-06-19 10:16

If you are copying an object that was gathered from the HG, there is no way around this as it contacts the grid for creator information ..

Can't have that timeout too quick because of slower grids and home based grids, danger of not preserving creator info for existing creators and items ..

(0035409)
Kubwa (reporter)
2019-06-19 10:17

Well, the problem will get bigger the more grids will close. One day, people will have most of their inventoryobjects made by users from grids, they no longer exist.
Cant we lower the timeout for creator information requests and make opensim stop trying to fetch them multiple times?

OR

adding a cache to the region which remembers, that requests to that grid were broken in the past and not trying it again?
(0035414)
tampa (reporter)
2019-06-20 05:29

A cache would be subject to stale entries and not attempting to fetch them over time would mean temporary grids would be lost in the loop. There simply is no way around this that would not also open up more holes in the process and not preserving or doing our level best to preserve the creator information just does not look good given that OpenSim already has a certain reputation.

Remember, OpenSim is database driven, so there are ways around most such data issues.
(0036041)
Kubwa (reporter)
2020-01-11 23:18
edited on: 2020-01-11 23:24

The problem gets bigger and bigger with every grid goinf offline. Me and friends of mine are experiencing the problem described above with every 10th object. It makes building hard and nearly impossible.
This problem IS a bug!

It can't be the solution to manipulate the database to resolve this issue. It's a problem the simulator has to handle. Grids have to stay online 24/7. If someone shuts down his grid, it cannot be the problem of all other grids. And these other grids are getting more trouble the more grids are shutting down.

(0036042)
BillBlight (developer)
2020-01-11 23:27
edited on: 2020-01-11 23:29

This is one of the issues, of supporting, user home based grids, run on home ISPs and home routers ...

If you make these timeouts too short, and the retries too few, then a lot of hypergrid items are going to break ...

It is a the nature of the beast pretty much ...

And as far as having a cache .. That again would be hit and miss, and items that could be update, don't get updated because the cache forever is set as it is down ..

(0036043)
BillBlight (developer)
2020-01-11 23:31

And just on a side note, I can hear the creators screaming now, because someplace . "temporarily" could not retrieve creator info, and so now someone has a bunch of items rezzed with the wrong or no creator info .. I think also a mechanism like this would be a copybotters dream, as it could make spoofing creators even easier ..
(0036044)
Kubwa (reporter)
2020-01-11 23:37
edited on: 2020-01-12 00:02

First of all, objects would not break if the creators info cannot be retrieved. The objects xml structure is untouched when the simulator gets a timeout.

It also has nothing to do with copybotters. Copybotters arent copying the creator data at all. So i dont see why there is argumented with copybotters. Its the creators fault (or his grid admins) when creator data cannot be retrieved (which still is temporary).

As i said... Look into the future of opensim... It will become heavily unusable if this issue is not being fixed.

BTW: Hosting OpenSim on a home server is not the issue (iam doing it myself for now over 6 years, and my grid was online all the time and will stay online as long as iam active in opensim)... Even the bandwidth isnt an argument when you have 100mbit in both directions :)

(0036045)
BillBlight (developer)
2020-01-12 00:04

yes but everyone running around the HG with things like Dreamgrid, are not always running on the best systems, but whatever ...
(0036046)
Kubwa (reporter)
2020-01-12 00:06

I hope we both can come together with the fact, that this issue is getting bigger and bigger and has to be resolved somewhere and somehow... otherwise opensims build tools getting unusable over time.
(0036047)
aiaustin (developer)
2020-01-13 00:28
edited on: 2020-01-13 00:30

Kubwa is not suggesting altering the creator data... just having a mechanism for looking up data from other grids that is tolerant to that data becoming unavailable, which surely will be a very common occurrence as many grids come and go or may be run on demand. Similar issues could arise with long friends lists that include many hypergrid friends I would think.


- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-06-19 10:03 Kubwa New Issue
2019-06-19 10:10 BillBlight Note Added: 0035405
2019-06-19 10:12 Kubwa Note Added: 0035406
2019-06-19 10:13 BillBlight Note Added: 0035407
2019-06-19 10:14 BillBlight Note Added: 0035408
2019-06-19 10:16 BillBlight Note Edited: 0035408 View Revisions
2019-06-19 10:17 Kubwa Note Added: 0035409
2019-06-20 05:29 tampa Note Added: 0035414
2020-01-11 23:18 Kubwa Note Added: 0036041
2020-01-11 23:19 Kubwa Script Engine => XEngine
2020-01-11 23:19 Kubwa Priority normal => high
2020-01-11 23:24 Kubwa Note Edited: 0036041 View Revisions
2020-01-11 23:25 Kubwa Description Updated View Revisions
2020-01-11 23:27 BillBlight Note Added: 0036042
2020-01-11 23:29 BillBlight Note Edited: 0036042 View Revisions
2020-01-11 23:31 BillBlight Note Added: 0036043
2020-01-11 23:37 Kubwa Note Added: 0036044
2020-01-11 23:40 Kubwa Note Edited: 0036044 View Revisions
2020-01-12 00:02 Kubwa Note Edited: 0036044 View Revisions
2020-01-12 00:04 BillBlight Note Added: 0036045
2020-01-12 00:06 Kubwa Note Added: 0036046
2020-01-13 00:28 aiaustin Note Added: 0036047
2020-01-13 00:30 aiaustin Note Edited: 0036047 View Revisions


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