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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0007067opensim[REGION] OpenSim Corepublic2014-03-19 16:502015-04-08 11:37
Reportermirceakitsune 
Assigned ToRobert Adams 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusassignedResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Versionmaster (dev code) 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0007067: Avatars highly distanced from the ground
DescriptionAvatars appear to float much higher above the ground than they should. Even when wearing multiple shapes, my feet are way above the floor of a simple cube. For some reason, avatar collisions might not be properly detected. Screenshot attached.
TagsNo tags attached.
Git Revision or version number24436
Run Mode Grid (Multiple Regions per Sim)
Physics EngineBulletSim
Script Engine
EnvironmentMono / Linux64
Mono Version3.0
ViewerKokua 3.7.2
Attached Filesjpg file icon Snapshot_002.jpg [^] (605,898 bytes) 2014-03-19 16:50
jpg file icon sl-feet-tilted.jpg [^] (72,675 bytes) 2014-03-28 14:26


jpg file icon 2015-01-09-Wonky-Feet.jpg [^] (47,673 bytes) 2015-01-09 07:37

- Relationships
related to 0007093closedRobert Adams Bulletsim: Wrong stand position. Standing on a prim floor, anything on shoes below bare feet are inside the floor. 
related to 0007105new Avatar Capsule Issue - Ankles bent upwards or sideways 
related to 0007106new Avatar feets follow terrain instead of the object its walking on. 

-  Notes
(0025483)
melanie (administrator)
2014-03-19 16:53

This is an issue caused by the Avination physics glue still being missing. I am working with Misterblue on this. The code drop resulting from this work will fix this issue because the new physics glue contains a more precise avatar height calculation and also passes this data in physics to do proper collision testing and avatar positioning.
(0025628)
lmmz (reporter)
2014-03-28 14:25

A possibly-related issue: I have noticed my avatar's feet being tilted to match the terrain under a flat prim, instead of standing flat on the prim. Picture (taken on Wright Plaza) included.
(0025659)
melanie (administrator)
2014-04-01 23:15

I believe surface normals for prims are fron physics. Maybe Bullet doesn't have that yet. Try it on a sim running ODE to make sure.
(0025660)
Robert Adams (administrator)
2014-04-02 06:36

BulletSim is returning a standing normal or standing doesn't work at all. I've seen the tilted feet problem occur when the avatar is too low. That is, when the feet go into the ground just a little. The tilting feet is a viewer thing and it seems the viewer does some computation on how the feet are interacting with the ground and tilt them in an attempt to make standing on inclines look better. I'm hoping the tilting problem goes away when avatar height is set properly.

As a side note, I've found why height is wrong -- the old code was commented out in preparation for the new height code. I'll have a short term repair soon.
(0025663)
Robert Adams (administrator)
2014-04-03 09:30

I checked in a commit that restores the old way of setting avatar size (while the new improved way is worked on). This is a fix for both BulletSim and ODE. Avatars stand on prims much better. Please report results.

There is still a problem with standing on terrain. As far as I can tell, the new terrain patch compressor causes the viewer to render terrain about 0.03m lower then the terrain really is. This causes the avatar to look like it is floating but if you drop a physical object on the terrain, you will see that anything physical is being shown as floating above the terrain. I am still digging into this problem (there is much magical math done in the terrain compressor).
(0025690)
lmmz (reporter)
2014-04-05 14:20

I wear prim feet. My (prim) feet are now a little bit in the ground, with the new patch, instead of floating above ground. The "tilted feet" issue also persists.
(0025705)
kenvc (reporter)
2014-04-06 15:33

The vertical position of the stand on a short AV appear to be different than on a tall AV with both using default settings.
(0025727)
kenvc (reporter)
2014-04-08 12:39

Testing during today's meeting proved that the stand position was different depending on which viewer you were using, but most of the problem appears to be when standing on a prim rather than on the terrain.

 On a prim one viewer had the feet inside the prim, and the next viewer had the feet floating above the prim. Singularity and Firestorm I think were the 2 viewers people were using during these tests. With different viewers displaying different things, this may be a very difficult thing to solve.
(0025961)
lmmz (reporter)
2014-05-05 12:38
edited on: 2014-05-05 12:39

Height and tilted feet, both still an issue in OpenSim 0.8.0 Dev 3a2c099: 2014-05-01. Using Singularity Alpha 1.8.5 (5801).

(0026028)
SeanSB (reporter)
2014-05-10 17:12

In Singu make sure your debug Z offset is set correctly.

That should get it to match Firestorm and also put your feet on the ground without bent feet.

Advanced>Debug Settings>AscentAvatarZModifier... set to 0
(0026029)
djphil (reporter)
2014-05-10 18:15

- Alot of my old avatars mesh is driven into the ground now (+/- 0.5)
http://www.imagerun.info/img173/eq91zjc96ddc4uxy.jpg [^]

- And below the water (terrain fill 0.0) they are levitated (+/- 1.0)
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6876 [^]
(0026031)
djphil (reporter)
2014-05-11 04:05

I forgot to mention two other problems persist with levitation.
So I can do it here.

- Prim levitation:
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6862 [^]

- Center of Mass or bounding box:
http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6782 [^]
(0026069)
lmmz (reporter)
2014-05-13 11:52
edited on: 2014-05-13 11:57

Sorry, SeanSB, this does not seem to be a client issue. My Advanced>Debug Settings>AscentAvatarZModifier = 0 is set in Singularity and I still have feet underground and bent feet. I wear prim feet. Perhaps setting the AscentAvatarZMod works for system feet, but it does not appear to help with prim feet.

(0026087)
SeanSB (reporter)
2014-05-14 03:16

Immz, I am not a OS dev. I just a user of OS who makes note of that setting in Singu as it has caused me the exact same problem.

These tickets are open to all to post.
(0026113)
Robert Adams (administrator)
2014-05-16 06:56

I built the latest OpenSim master, started a clean database and ran standalone with a simple Ruth avatar on flat terrain. My measurements of the avatar clearance above ground and terrain have BulletSim above the terrain or prim but lower than what ODE shows. That is, it seemed that BulletSim was closer to right than ODE.

Here are some pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/70sv37phrd1zz43/AAB5ZRQ2VE-uvdswydVR6U72a [^]

The filenames are [BS|ODE]-FS-[p|t]-[0|50|100]-*.png which denotes BulletSim or ODE, that I used the latest FireStorm and whether the avatar is standing on a prim or terrain and whether the avatar height is 0%, 50% or 100% from the avatar appearance editor.

It seems that, as defaulted, BulletSim is not too far off correct avatar standing ground clearance. Does this mean that Ruth is right but other, customized avatars are adjusted differently?
(0026114)
djphil (reporter)
2014-05-16 07:09

Ruth for me is ok if ground level is 20.5 and also if ground level is 0 (underwater).
As shown in my various screenshots, the problem seems to relate custom avatar mesh.
I said that all these mesh avatars worked well before.
(0026119)
lmmz (reporter)
2014-05-16 11:13

Melanie noted in her first post on this issue that the problems arise because of "Avination physics glue" being missing. Do we know any more about that situation?
(0026120)
Robert Adams (administrator)
2014-05-16 11:37

The comment about 'physics glue' refers to a fix to the computation of avatar height. Melanie created a fix that centralizes the avatar height computation in one place. At the moment, avatar height is re-computed in several different places and the computation differs in each. This centralization of code is in the works but there is no scheduled date for inclusion. I haven't tried it myself and, while I'm hopeful that it Just Fixes All The Problems, I haven't tested it.
(0026125)
Robert Adams (administrator)
2014-05-18 07:48

I've been trying to find the tilted feet problem and I have found that it happens with both BulletSim and ODE with both Singularity and Firestorm. That is, 'tilted feet' is not just a BulletSim problem.

I verified that BulletSim generates the correct collision normals when standing on a flat prim that is above tilted terrain. The 'collisionPlane' Vector4 that is passed in an AvatarTerseUpdate does not contain the collision normal information in either BulletSim or ODE. I'm not sure what it contains actually -- that doesn't send any tilt information.

Anyway, the 'tilted feet' problem (avatar feet tilted when standing on a flat prim that is over tilted terrain) is some OpenSimultor bug and not a BulletSim specific problem.
(0026495)
UbitUmarov (administrator)
2014-07-18 06:18

ode avatar float problem can be reduced in file ../OdePlugin/ODECharacter.cs line 503. Remove the * 1.15f multiplication factor.
(0026531)
orenh (administrator)
2014-07-21 05:34

I fixed the hovering problem in ODE only.

See Git master feacae17
(0026576)
Robert Adams (administrator)
2014-07-24 21:35

I have tweaked the default parameters for BulletSim. Is this the default avatar spacing still a problem? If not, which cases are wrong?
(0027195)
aiaustin (developer)
2015-01-09 07:37
edited on: 2015-01-09 07:38

As noted in http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7106 [^] the avatar feet angles follows the terrain even if its FAR FAR below where the avatar is.. rather than respecting the angle of the ground mesh... see for example attached image 2015-01-09-Wonky-Feet.jpg where mesh snow covered ground is the physics base for the avatar, but the underlying base terrain happens here to be 50m lower and an almost vertical cliff. Hence feet angle is almost 90 deg to leg!This on OpenSim 0.8.1 dev master with latest Bullet libraries r/25684 from 9-Jan-2014.

(0027924)
Luisillo_Contepomi (reporter)
2015-03-21 12:02

Testing on 0.8.1 with Bulletsim - This issue persist only over a prim not over terrain.
(0027929)
lmmz (reporter)
2015-03-21 14:48
edited on: 2015-03-21 14:50

Feet height, when standing on prim, seems fine for me on Wright Plaza, running 0.8.2.0 Dev 5b31bb9: 2015-03-16 23:48:16 +0000. The "tilted feet" issue still seems to persist, but height looks fine. I see, in the first note for this height issue, back in 2014, that Melanie said, "This is an issue caused by the Avination physics glue still being missing." Has the "physics glue" been added?

(0027990)
lmmz (reporter)
2015-04-08 11:36

Tilted feet still an issue.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2014-03-19 16:50 mirceakitsune New Issue
2014-03-19 16:50 mirceakitsune File Added: Snapshot_002.jpg
2014-03-19 16:53 melanie Note Added: 0025483
2014-03-28 14:25 lmmz Note Added: 0025628
2014-03-28 14:26 lmmz File Added: sl-feet-tilted.jpg
2014-04-01 11:30 Robert Adams Assigned To => Robert Adams
2014-04-01 11:30 Robert Adams Status new => assigned
2014-04-01 18:05 justincc Target Version => 0.8-rc3
2014-04-01 23:15 melanie Note Added: 0025659
2014-04-02 06:36 Robert Adams Note Added: 0025660
2014-04-03 09:30 Robert Adams Note Added: 0025663
2014-04-05 14:20 lmmz Note Added: 0025690
2014-04-06 09:52 lmmz Relationship added related to 0007093
2014-04-06 15:33 kenvc Note Added: 0025705
2014-04-08 12:39 kenvc Note Added: 0025727
2014-04-09 10:29 lmmz Relationship added related to 0007105
2014-04-10 06:04 Mata Hari Relationship added related to 0007106
2014-05-05 12:38 lmmz Note Added: 0025961
2014-05-05 12:39 lmmz Note Edited: 0025961 View Revisions
2014-05-10 17:12 SeanSB Note Added: 0026028
2014-05-10 18:15 djphil Note Added: 0026029
2014-05-11 04:05 djphil Note Added: 0026031
2014-05-13 11:52 lmmz Note Added: 0026069
2014-05-13 11:55 lmmz Note Edited: 0026069 View Revisions
2014-05-13 11:56 lmmz Note Edited: 0026069 View Revisions
2014-05-13 11:57 lmmz Note Edited: 0026069 View Revisions
2014-05-14 03:16 SeanSB Note Added: 0026087
2014-05-16 06:56 Robert Adams Note Added: 0026113
2014-05-16 07:09 djphil Note Added: 0026114
2014-05-16 11:13 lmmz Note Added: 0026119
2014-05-16 11:37 Robert Adams Note Added: 0026120
2014-05-18 07:48 Robert Adams Note Added: 0026125
2014-07-18 06:18 UbitUmarov Note Added: 0026495
2014-07-21 05:34 orenh Note Added: 0026531
2014-07-24 21:35 Robert Adams Note Added: 0026576
2015-01-09 07:37 aiaustin Note Added: 0027195
2015-01-09 07:37 aiaustin File Added: 2015-01-09-Wonky-Feet.jpg
2015-01-09 07:38 aiaustin Note Edited: 0027195 View Revisions
2015-03-21 12:02 Luisillo_Contepomi Note Added: 0027924
2015-03-21 14:48 lmmz Note Added: 0027929
2015-03-21 14:50 lmmz Note Edited: 0027929 View Revisions
2015-04-08 11:36 lmmz Note Added: 0027990


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