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| ID | Category | Severity | Reproducibility | Date Submitted | Last Update | |||||||
| 0002905 | [opensim] [REGION] Physics Engines | minor | always | 2008-12-23 17:18 | 2009-10-11 05:53 | |||||||
| Reporter | Skelito | View Status | public | |||||||||
| Assigned To | ||||||||||||
| Priority | normal | Resolution | open | |||||||||
| Status | acknowledged | Product Version | ||||||||||
| Summary | 0002905: Can not walk onto the South & East sides of Prims | |||||||||||
| Description |
Created a simple cube with the default 0.500 z-axis. I stretched it out on the x and y axis, say to make a step, and found i couldn't walk onto the south and east sides of the prim. North and west were fine. Also found out that it starts at about 0.175 thickness. Anything roughly greater then 0.175 thickness on the z-axis and the avatar stops like it is running into a wall. |
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| Additional Information |
I have tried both Hippo and SL viewers on ODE/meshemizer with same results. Once on the prim avatar has no problems exiting from the south and east sides. It is only one way. Onto the prim |
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| Tags | No tags attached. | |||||||||||
| Git Revision | ||||||||||||
| SVN Revision | 7865 | |||||||||||
| Run Mode | Grid (1 Region per Sim) | |||||||||||
| Physics Engine | ODE | |||||||||||
| Environment | Unknown | |||||||||||
| Mono Version | None | |||||||||||
| Attached Files | ||||||||||||
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Notes |
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(0008371) Teravus (administrator) 2008-12-23 17:25 |
the avatar capsule is leaning... this is why. |
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(0009396) dmiles (reporter) 2009-02-12 19:00 |
I got this exactly with the ZeroMesher .. But not with [Startup] meshing = Meshmerizer |
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(0009398) Jeff1564 (reporter) 2009-02-12 19:05 |
I got the same with meshing = Meshmerizer physics = OpenDynamicsEngine |
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(0009400) Skelito (reporter) 2009-02-12 20:01 |
The avatar capsule does seem big. This is proven by walking up to a wall and seeing how far it stands away. But, if it were leaning....wouldn't this effect all 4 sides? Is it possible the prim calculations for the server are different then what the viewer sees? I have tested this on cylinder shapes as well with same results. This is all with default setting in the ini file. |
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(0010840) dahlia (manager) 2009-04-18 17:22 |
If you are using Meshmerizer the prim shapes are very close to what you see in the viewer if you have object detail in your viewer preferences set at the most detailed setting. There are some subtle differences but these will not be apparent except for prims much larger than the 10x10x10 default maximum size the LL viewer allows to be created, and if the prim is manipulated to extreme settings with most of the prim editing parameters. There is no known difference in shape at all for any simple prims such as cubes. If you are using the ODE engine, simple boxes and spheres do not have a "proxy" or a mesh representation of the prim, rather collisions are computed by a set of rules internal to the physics engine. More complex prim shapes do have an actual mesh. |
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(0010841) svn (developer) 2009-04-18 18:21 |
dahlia committed related code in r9219 Added a "force_simple_prim_meshing" option to the ODE settings in OpenSim.ini which will use meshes for collisions with simple prim shapes rather than internal ODE algorithms. This may help with Mantis 0002905 and Mantis 0003487 for those experimenting with capsule settings. Note that this will increase memory usage and region startup time. see more at - http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=9219 [^] |
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(0010843) Skelito (reporter) 2009-04-18 18:45 |
After going to r9219 and uncommenting force_simple_prim_meshing = true, I noticed no changes in climbing a simple cube 4.000 x 4.000 on the south and east sides. But note, I am testing this with the default capsule settings only. |
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(0012167) lmmz (reporter) 2009-06-16 14:46 edited on: 2009-06-16 14:50 |
Still an issue in 9867. Enabling simple prim meshing does not fix it. |
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(0012169) nlin (developer) 2009-06-16 17:15 |
I have an internal patch that fixes this (by fixing the avatar capsule tilt). However this may introduce other side effects like changing the apparent avatar foot position when walking on steep terrain, or other side effects not yet known. How about if I make the fix an option in opensim.ini, with the warning that it may cause side effects, so you can experiment with it? |
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(0012170) Skelito (reporter) 2009-06-16 19:37 |
nlin, You may want to view this mantis as well, this also may have something to do with the capsule tilt. http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=3690 [^] |
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(0012179) lmmz (reporter) 2009-06-17 10:03 |
nlin: let's try it. :) |
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(0012180) Skelito (reporter) 2009-06-17 10:58 |
nlin, Per talks on irc, Teravus described the capsule as "pill shaped", not a cube or box. If this is the case, you may need to consider this in your patch tweaks. Making the capsule larger does help with some things, but makes the avatar to fat. Try walking up to a wall and see how far you are from it when you collide. |
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(0012199) lmmz (reporter) 2009-06-20 11:22 |
bump :) |
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(0012200) melanie (administrator) 2009-06-20 11:53 |
nlin, did you ever commit that? If not, please either attach it here or commit it. A number of people, myself included, are waiting for it. |
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(0012347) svn (developer) 2009-07-07 18:41 |
nlin committed related code in r9986 Experimental fix for tilted avatar capsule, Mantis 0002905 Set av_capsule_tilted to false in opensim.ini. Default is true, so there is no change in avatar behavior (and no breaking of existing content which relies on the tilted capsule). This commit straightens up the avatar capsule so it behaves consistently (e.g. same collision behavior against prims regardless of which direction the avatar is coming from; ability to fit through narrow doorways). Please note this introduces other side effects which have not been fixed. In particular: * The avatar frequently falls through the terrain if it is not flat, though the avatar behaves pretty well on flat terrain. This requires investigation of the ode terrain collider. * The apparent foot position of the avatar with respect to the ground is changed. This requires investigation of the avatar height/capsule height. Please consider this as work in progress. see more at - http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=9986 [^] |
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(0012349) Skelito (reporter) 2009-07-07 19:29 edited on: 2009-07-07 19:31 |
Even though it is exciting to see things like this are being worked on, sad to say av_capsule_tilted = false is unusable. 1. My region is heavily terrained with mountains. Simple running and I found myself falling through the terrian ALOT. This has never happened...ever. 2. Now the avatar CAN NOT climb up a 0.500 thick cube prim in any direction. 3. Walking up a hill and stopping, causes the avatar to bounce backwards in steps till stopped. av_capsule_tilted = true (default) is unchanged These were just quick tests and if I find more with the false setting, I will report. |
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(0012350) melanie (administrator) 2009-07-08 00:10 |
As far as I recall, an avatar can't walk up a 0.5 m step in SL, either. I found 0.35 to be the tallest usable step height in SL (the height where the avatar will climb without too much collision noise) |
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(0012352) Skelito (reporter) 2009-07-08 03:41 |
Melanie, I just tested in SL and 0.75 wasn't a problem walking onto. Most good builders probably use the 0.35 thickness because it's visually appealing. |
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(0012353) melanie (administrator) 2009-07-08 03:45 |
Well, I find that greater step heights cause collision "clicks" in SL. Since I don't like my stairs to be noisy, I use 0.35 or thereabouts. |
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(0012435) svn (developer) 2009-07-15 03:09 |
nlin committed related code in r10036 Fix for avatar falling through terrain when av_capsule_tilted=false, Mantis 0002905 This fix re-introduces a small tilt into the capsule to prevent avatar falling through terrain. Re-introduction of the tilt means that some direction-dependent behavior when walking over prims, but I have tried to minimize this. Additionally this commit allows the capsule to wobble slightly when being pushed around the terrain. This should make walking over prims easier, as the capsule can wobble and glide diagonally over the prim's edge, instead of rigidly being stopped vertically against the prim's face. see more at - http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=10036 [^] |
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(0012436) Skelito (reporter) 2009-07-15 05:08 |
Setting av_capsule_tilted = false no longer makes the avatar fall through the terrain. Also the avatar can climb up to 0.750 prim thickness. (up to 1.000 on south and west sides) Side Note: I use the osTeleportAgent script as portals to get to different places on region. Example: walk through portal, teleport to platform 1k up. I had to adjust the z-axis on vector LandingPoint up 1 so I didnt fall through the platform on arrival. Just a heads up for those that use this script. Very Nice, Thank You! |
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(0012551) Skelito (reporter) 2009-07-22 07:35 |
Further testing with av_capsule_tilted = false, I have found 2 side effects. 1. Increase in foldie legs on log in 2. When flying and landing, the avatar will bounce once and sometimes go into flapping and frailing. Repo: Fly up above a prim (or flat ground). Hold down the "Page Down" key. Avatar bounces up once when landing and may flap and frail. Noticed this on LBSA. Tested with and without attachments and had same results. av_capsule_tilted = true doesn't have the bouncing. |
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(0012682) Skelito (reporter) 2009-07-30 06:39 edited on: 2009-07-30 06:43 |
If you create a wall and face it in the North and South directions you can walk thru it with av_capsule_tilted = false. Setting it to true and the wall becomes solid again. If you make the wall thicker, say greater then 3m, you start to deflect out to the side once inside the wall. Also seems to apply for existing prims. Repo: make a cube 5x5x5 and try walking into it from the north and south directions with av_capsule_tilted = false set in ini file. Seems at this time av_capsule_tilted = true is the best setting. |
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(0013406) nlin (developer) 2009-09-17 19:46 |
Alternate algorithm checked in, still WIP (falling animation played too frequently). See commit r56edbe9b60e5 for details. |
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(0013494) smxy (reporter) 2009-09-18 10:13 |
Since this change, our avatars now sink into whatever we're walking or standing upon, up to the top of our ankles. Additionally, the propensity to flop into a falling animation has risen dramatically. |
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(0013495) Skelito (reporter) 2009-09-18 12:15 |
Yes, currently I now have bent knees when standing on the ground. Make a platform 5 x 5 x 0.100 and put it in the air above the ground. Walk on it then use camera to look underneath. You will see your feet sticking out the bottom side. |
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(0013610) smxy (reporter) 2009-09-23 10:05 |
Setting av_capsule_tilted to false eliminated the "feet sinking into the ground" problem for me and appears to have returned my avatar's propensity for flopping into the falling animation to what it was previously. Thanks go to Master_Zephyr for the suggestion. |
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(0013611) Skelito (reporter) 2009-09-23 10:25 |
I can confirm what smxy is saying about av_capsule_tilted to false. Mine was set to the default ini on true when nlin's new patch came out and thats why I was having all the problems. Avatar can now climb up on all sides of a cube. Should ini default be changed to false? That would probably resolve this mantis. |
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(0013635) master zephyr (reporter) 2009-09-26 23:11 |
Setting that to false is really just a workaround to an unintended side effect of the patch. Changing it as a default is masking the cause. There are other side effects to it as well. So i would say it should remain as it is until it can be looked at a bit deeper or ppl will end up just having to change it back again. When we found the workaround it was simply a matter of luck that it worked and by no means a cure. It works for now but not ment as a FIX. |
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(0013636) Skelito (reporter) 2009-09-27 06:47 |
Seems this has been broken again on SVN 315 commit a7f3d01f8a9d3661da4660fdd2717e912917fd1c Now the avatar can't walk up any direction on a default 0.500 thick platform or step. Setting av_capsule_tilted to true is not an option because it has bad effects. Worked fine on SVN 289 commit 56edbe9b60e5ed5f1388e2d1d4d2a0d82cdeaf6d |
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(0013658) nlin (developer) 2009-09-29 02:42 |
The walking over a 0.5 thick platform worked temporarily because I introduced a dynamic wobble into the avatar that allows the avatar to lean forward and allows the avatar's side (which is now leaning) to glide over the edge of the prim. I think that's not ideal behavior because intuitively the avatar's feet (specifically the bottom hemisphere of the capsule) should be gliding over the prim, not the avatar's tilted side. Currently I introduced a rotating tilt which makes the behavior more consistent. I also removed the wobble. So it should act consistently now, but the minimum height for a platform step is lower. For the ideal case of consistent (orientation-independent) behavior that allows walking over 0.5m (or ideally, configurable-height) platforms, we need to 1) Remove the tilt completely (which is currently doable) and solve the problem that a straight-up avatar falls through the terrain (which is currently an open problem). 2) Allow the capsule to float slightly so it can move over platforms of various heights without any tilting. In other words, I think we need to design a new capsule handling algorithm to do this properly. One example is here: http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/OgreOde_Walking_Character [^] |
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(0013659) melanie (administrator) 2009-09-29 02:46 |
Any possibility to use a mesh instead of a capsule, to approximate the shape of the torso better (allow huggers to work!) and have a different bottom shape to make climbing work better? |
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(0013669) nlin (developer) 2009-09-29 20:12 |
My gut feeling would be that mesh collisions might lead more easily to avatars getting stuck/wedged, but this would have to be tested. |
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(0013776) Skelito (reporter) 2009-10-07 02:55 edited on: 2009-10-07 02:57 |
Thanks nlin! Your patch was working great up until commit a7f3d01f8a9d3661da4660fdd2717e912917fd1c SVN 315 Currently the avatar can't walk up prims in any direction. Ever since the introduction of mega regions, I noticed prim and terrain meshing have been off on regular regions. Until this gets corrected, (or better capsule) probably a waste to pursue this :) |
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(0013824) darjeeling (reporter) 2009-10-11 05:53 |
I've discovered that walking is ok, but standing still on whatever surface (ground and prims) AFTER walking to any direction except SE, results in bend legs and feet a few inches in the ground. When walking towards SE corner this is not the case. Is this thesame issue ? |
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